I hear atheists applaud logic here often, but if they are so smart...........??

Question

don't they know that logic will always be incomplete, and absolute truth is beyond all logic?

In 1931, the Czech-born mathematician Kurt Gödel demonstrated that within any given branch of mathematics, there would always be some propositions that couldn't be proven either true or false using the rules and axioms ... of that mathematical branch itself. You might be able to prove every conceivable statement about numbers within a system by going outside the system in order to come up with new rules and axioms, but by doing so you'll only create a larger system with its own unprovable statements. The implication is that all logical system of any complexity are, by definition, incomplete; each of them contains, at any given time, more true statements than it can possibly prove according to its own defining set of rules.

did i even suggest this proves God exists,
wow i just realized, you atheists actually do want to believe in God

Answer 1

You're correct. Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem makes a compelling case, and I'm very familiar with it. In other words, some truths have to be taken as axioms. I don't know any atheist who claims to live in a world where all premises have a priori theorems -- that would be impossible.

That doesn't mean you just make stuff up and decide it's the "ultimate truth."

Answer 2

Bottom line, PROVE there is a god. God didn't create man, man created god. Man is here, god is not. It was because of mans ignorance he had to come up with something to answer questions that couldn't have been answered because of ignorance. Like the story of where did life come from, Well on the first day god created...Genesis is an example of a bed time story. How about different languages ; Mommy, Daddy why do people talk different? Well there was this tower of Babel...cute story, load of bull s**t. The bible is the Judeo Christian version of Grimm's Fairy Tales. You talk mathematics, OK. 2 Men and 1 woman equals 3 people. Adam, Eve , Cain ( Abel was killed) no mention in the bible of anybody else being created by god but when Cain is cast out he takes a wife. . Where the heck did she come from. And god says any body who kills Cain will suffer. Where the heck did they come from. What was there, a god convention going on and creations all over the place. Do the math. God created 2 people they have one living son where did we all come from. Where did all these other people, Cains wife and those warned not to kill him, come from ? Some great religious scholars claim god created man about 5,600 years ago and created the Earth about 8,000 years ago. OK wheres the proof. There's proof of dinosaurs 65 million years ago and these religious scholars say it's impossible. Gee they can't believe in proven physical science and its physical proof but they will believe in a book written by man that's supposed to be the word of god.
Here's a question for the non-atheist, If god is the all powerfull, the being with no begining or end, the being from before time and able to created the cosmos, time itself and all things living, can god make a stone that's so heavey even he couldn't lift it ?

Answer 3

I think being or not being an atheist is more of an emotional than a logical thing. When my mother died I felt that there could not possibly be a God that would allow anything so terrible to happen. But then I had children and felt that nothing so wonderful could just be merely a biological act. My feeling swing back and forth depending on the events in my life. I find that a human soul must have a spark of divinity and really will not die. But I am nearing the end of my life and feel no fear. Either death will be the end or a new beginning. No matter what, I do not find death to be a fearful thing. Religion seems to me to be a leap of faith, but we will have to learn to respect other people and their values. It may take eternities to master that concept. Either that or we will self segragate. I don't know, what have we learned if anything?

Answer 4

Re eyeball observation.

An eyeball is: "the ball or globe of the eye." An eye is: "the organ of sight, in vertebrates typically one of a pair of spherical bodies."

You don't actually need two eyes to see dimensions. Even one eye can make up the difference. If you could see what literally hits your eyes, you would have two black spots in the middle where your optic nerves come off your retinas. It's not the fact that you have two eyes that makes the difference, as I've heard, because you can close one eye and you still don't get a black spot there. Therefore, I could see your line of numbers quite well and it only took (theoretically) one eyeball to do it.

Logic is: the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference. It derives from: logikos, of speech or reason. The "fer" in "infer" comes from "ferre - to bring, carry" and is related to "bear." A metaphor is the bearing of meaning from one word to another word. Rely is related to "religion." There are meanings of "binding fast" or "holding firmly."

The krator in kosmokrator of Ephesians 6:12 means "to hold in the hand and not let go." "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil (kosmokrator) in the heavenly realms."

In any event, it looks like logic is not in fact "something that makes sense." It is the habit that humans have of studying "what makes something make sense." Therefore, how is logic incomplete? I think that might be called "emotionalism" or "having your own personal agenda." Is it possible not to? An appreciation of the passage of time helps. The apostle Paul said in Philippians 3:13 - "Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead." The apostle James said in James 4:14 - "Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes."

Anyway, I agree with you. I think that atheists, like many addicts, have a few word phobias. They're not the most eloquent people in the world - verbose, perhaps, but eloquent? No.

Answer 5

The answer is All is One. No matter what is complete or incompletely answered, the fact remains that the answers are there to find. Take infinity; It is not definable as a number, therefore it is transcendental. So is pi. Simply because you can not find a complete answer, does not mean the answer does not exist. If this were so, it would be impossible to calculate the next number of pi. Infinity, without definition, still exists. All systems are One infinitely and infinitesimally. Logic is not complete, but rather Mans ability to complete it.

Answer 6

Mathematics is not a Science.. it is a Language.. it has Syntax and structure and it is used to explain Science but if you get a Degree in Mathematics without taking LOTS of Science classes.. then you will get a Bachelor of Arts or Master of Arts.. not a BS or MS Degree.

Answer 7

Ever heard of occam's razor. Some scientific theories might sound farfetched, but they are based on observations not on assumption. Saying god did it is intellectually lazy. By filling gaps of knowledge with the sky daddy we slow our development. Plus have you ever read any of the myth's explaining the various godmen. You have to make up more things to explain creation by a god than just saying it occure naturally.

"did i even suggest this proves God exists,
wow i just realized, you atheists actually do want to believe in God" You asked this on the religious section how did you expect us to take it.

Answer 8

No such thing as absolute truth. Logic, no matter if some mathematician says is incomplete, still wins out over religious faith.

Answer 9

Logic is not necessarily math. This proof has nothing to do with empirical observations of the world around us.

Certain things have to be accepted as truth, such as, say, reality as it exists is real, and logical.

Answer 10

yeah right... I absolutely love guys like you... you read half of an article and now you're a big philosopher....

before you start with atheists... Christians should sort out their own misconceptions and misunderstandings about THEIR OWN religion.... (otherwise there wouldn't be so many denominations)...

ps: as a Christian you should focus more on other things than 'trashing' people who don't share your belief