Okay, you can't have it both ways...?

Question

either the Old Testement Laws apply until the end of the world as Jesus said, or they don't because of what Paul said. Considering that Paul never met Christ, I don't see why he even made it into the bible in the first place, but nevermind that, can someone please clear this up?

10 points to the best answer... especially if it's rational.

Answer 1

I agree that Jesus did not do away with any of the old customs(man's traditions) and laws(God's demands). They apply forever. God never changes.

What Paul did was to say a person doesn't become a Jew by being circumsised of the flesh (your penis has nothing to do with being righteous). But becomes a Jew of the heart (your actions, your devotion, your following of the law). The physical appearance and act of circumcision does not make a person a good person or a bad person.

Popular Christianity prefers to add to what Paul said because they delight in the taste of pork and prefer Sunday worship to Saturday worship.They like Christmas and Easter because it is fun. But Paul never did away with the proper ways to worship God, he did away with the thought that you could not be a Jew (chosen person) by cutting the excess flesh off your penis. That, in fact, a Jew was a person that followed the law and followed the things that do not pertain to the flesh. He enforced the thought that the law was righteous, but that the customs of Israel were not necessary to obtain salvation. Pork is still bad for you (doctor's agree). The Sabbath is still the seventh day(all theologians agree). But God is not going to deny you salvation if you don't wear your hair like a 'Jew' or get circumsised like a 'Jew'. Nor will he deny a person their reward for eating unhealthy. He will deny them salvation if they ignore the laws. Which most of Christianity does.

Popular Christianity isn't Christianity at all. It is a rubberstamped religion of the Catholic Church's doctrine and the protested doctrines (which are just transformed doctrines based in Catholic belief) that were born out of these original rules. Jesus' name was 'rubberstamped' on a lot of ancient customs and religions and declared to be Christ's wishes, when, in fact, it isn't Christ-like at all.

The mistake is in the interpretation of what Paul said. It has been added to countless times to include actually breaking one of the ten commandments. Remember the Sabbath day and to keep it Holy. The Sabbath is the seventh day (and also there are many days that are called high Sabbaths), modern Christianity makes the weekly Sabbath the first day and totally ignores the high Sabbaths that Jesus himself acknowledged.

You are right to question modern Christianity's obvious contradictions. But don't believe the contradictions are biblical in nature. They are the mistakes made by self serving interpretors of the scriptures.

Popular Christianity is the 'den of asps' that Christ himself spoke against. It is anti-christ and it's servants will hate anyone that differs in opinion (these types were responsible for christ's death). Paul and Christ were not saying two different things. Paul was expounding on what Christ had already said. God is of the spirit and not of the flesh. Paul was included in the Bible because he understood what Christ had said and not even Peter could argue against his interpretations.

Answer 2

Hi Atheist Dude with the Buddy Jesus Icon:

Our frient Ut has it right. Which laws exactly?

You see, in the Old Testament there are some 600 laws. That doesn't cover rabbinical law. What is handed down. Not in scripture.

Everyone agrees the big 10 are still valid. For what ever reason even those who say the OT no longer applies will agree the big 10 are still valid.

Funny, huh?

However even the Jews have long ago stopped using the laws in the Book of Leviticus. Leviticus is an entire book dedicated to laws specifically for Levite Priests. I recently saw a program about a small Jewish sect looking to bring it back.

Much of what Paul is speaking of refers to the dietary restrictions of the Hebrews and the need for circumcision. The apostles prayed about it and God enlightened them that these things were not required.

Paul was specifically the apostle to the Gentiles. Which is why his words are sometimes different from Jesus. Jesus spoke to the Hebrews. He came to call the Hebrews. He only briefly mentions that he has a whole other fold. (of sheep - the gentiles...)

Paul in his letters confirms a lot of the "laws" about women in the temple. They should not speak. They should have their heads covered. yadda yadda. These were things that were just "proper."

Originally there was a lot of fighting between Peter and Paul. Peter wanted everyone who believed in Jesus to convert to Judaism. Paul was given the understanding that this was not so. Then Peter was given a dream. That part is in the bible. Where all food, even that previously restricted under Jewish law, was ok for the followers of The Way. That is to say the first Christians.

Does that help? Or have I just made it worse?

Later Gator.

Answer 3

Which Old Testament rules?
Was Jesus talking about the ten commandments, or the entire Mosaic Law? Were any of the rules exclusive to a theocratic government? Considering the fact that Gentiles were not bound by the Mosaic Law (even by Jewish standards), should they adopt the Jewish Law as well? Jesus never evangelized the Gentiles, so should we conclude that Christianity is only available to Jews? Paul, after all, was the Apostle to the Gentiles...

Answer 4

The law covenant was originally set up to show the Jews that whatever they do they will break a law and here was need for atonement from their sins. Each year the high priest performed rituals to atone for the sins of the nation. Jesus christ came and he fulfilled the law and he encapsulated it into 2 christian principles love god and neighbour. But he also said that not one of these laws was to be broken. So you can think of Jesus commands as the spirit of the law but the actual law covenant as the word of the law. Paul was talking about the fact that christ was the ultimate ransom sacrifice to fulfill the Mosaic law and it ended with his death the need to make annual atonement as his sacrifice was once for all time and the principles jesus promoted are the basis for all law. Think about it if we steal or murder or covet our neighbours wife are we loving our neighbour, I think not because as such mankind is our neighbour so we should apply his laws to everybody we meet.

Answer 5

Jesus is Lord...not Paul

Answer 6

Of course, and I'd have to agree. And don't you just love it when people cafeteria style the bible, picking and choosing little bits that they like and discard the gory stuff of genesis, numbers and judges. read the book The God Delusion.... all your great questions answered.... now number 8 on the NYT Best Seller List. worth every dime.

Answer 7

But..but...but... Isn't that a huge part of Christianity? To have it both ways?

Condemning homosexuality based on Leviticus, and still eating shellfish or wearing clothes of mixed fabric, and with that denying that same Leviticus?

I'm surprised it isn't one of the 10 Commandments: "Thou shallt have it both ways, but only when explained for your own benefits"

Answer 8

This is why God's rationale is called "mysterious ways".

Answer 9

The bible was written by humans, mere mortals, that used their supposed "intellect and spirituality" to write down what they thought god told them. Who knows if those laws were even what "god" told them to write down.

Answer 10

Great question....this should be good