Isn't that proof that earth used to be A LOT warmer?

Question

The fact that in Yellowstone there are fossilized Avacado, magnolia and Dogwood trees dating back 50 million years where now it is an alpine zone where only hardy evergreens grow? That means that a semi tropical zone existed at or above 5000 feet above sea level? And if it werent for NATURAL global warming the northern half of the USA would be under close to a mile of ice? All this suggests that we have NOTHING to do with the global warming / cooling cycle. So why aren't we worrying about real issues like deforestation, desertification and the wholesale destruction of sealife? Just curious.

And why is it that ice core samples consistently prove that CO2 levels rise AFTER the environment gets warmer? Is it because CO2 is not a climate driver and perhaps we are pursuing the wrong culprit?

http://www.co2science.org
http://www.globalwarming.org/
http://www.friendsofscience.org/
The World Climate Report shows that annual growth in concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere have remained essentially flat from 1975 to the present - during a time of maximum production of CO2 from fossil fuels. This casts doubt on the claim that rapid and dramatic build-ups of CO2 will occur in the future.

Dr. Jan Veizer, Ottawa-Carleton Geoscience Centre, University of Ottawa, Canada, and Institut fuer Geologie, Mineralogie und Geophysik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Bochum, Germany, reinforces the concept of natural causes for climate change in an important article published in GSA TODAY on July 2003. It deals with cloud formation through charged nuclei provided by cosmic ray flux, which itself is subject to variation in the sun’s magnetic field.

Answer 1

Because this warming will be devastating to our modern civilization.

In the warmer times you cite, sea level was at least a hundred feet higher. Want to have to deal with that?

Animals could (and did) migrate to more hospitable climates. Want to move around a billion or so people who have to leave their homes, because of flooding and drought? Many of them will have to go to other countries entirely.

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSL052735320070407

Finally, this warming is caused by us.

http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Image:Climate_Change_Attribution.png

It is within our power (though not easy) to reduce it enough so we can cope with the consequences.

EDIT - CO2 works two ways. It both causes warming, and is released from oceans as they warm. In the past warming came first and then CO2. This time they're going up together, one proof that this time is different and unnatural. But the CO2 release from the oceans will make it worse.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=13

Answer 2

First of all, the natural global warming/cooling process is incredibly slow. If you look at the mean temperature of the earth throughout history, it is cyclical and goes back and forth between hot and cold, but the warming trend should not be accelerating this quickly. Naturally, the temperature increases by a few degrees every 1000 years or so. But, scientists predict the temperature will increase by that much in a few decades!

I'm not saying deforestation, desertification, and ocean destruction aren't important. Deforestation hurts all wildfire and threatens the biodiversity of the Earth. Desertification is a byproduct of global warming. Things get hotter, rain patterns shift, turning places into deserts. The ecology of the ocean is equally threatened. All these issues need to be considered if we have any hope of saving the planet as we know it.

Answer 3

we have always had proof that earth was warmer and had tropics in different place like England and even Antarctica ,foosilized tropical plants are found everywhere ,the poles has been in different places .

there definately are global climatic cycles but mans influence cannot be denied,so whatever the natural processes are the unnatural ones are aiding and abetting

in North Africa,India,Mexico ,millions of people are effected by land loss and desertification all due to bad farming practises

In the days of the dinosaurs this planet was under an aquiferus manta ,a mist that covered the entire earth ,and there were very few desserts .
Count how many there are today,and most of them are as a result of mans actions.

the sahara used to be forrests,it is now a dessert that grows by 7kilometres per year

arabia ,irak ,iran used to be fertile lands in biblical times
Ghengas Kahn put every thing to the sword and torch turning vast territories into desserts,and to make sure he filled all the wells with sand.

the Phoenicicans deforrested vast areas for their ship building as Spain did for their Armada

in china, thousands of what used to be farmers are running for their lives from the dust storms that have burried about 900 of their towns,and villages, transforming their lands into dessert,due to overgrazing and intensive agriculture using fertilisers
and instead of producing food they are now needing it from some where else,

each degree rise in temperature means 10%crop loss

,we have less areble land ,every year,to produce food ,for an extra 70 million people ,and there is less and less water (because of deforestation),they are overpumping deep carbon aquifiers to irrigate this production ,
and plowing more and more unstable lands ,because they have lost so many million hectares to desertification ,
because of bad farming practises ,such as using fertilizers and heavy machinary or over grazing.

(Ghengas would have been envious of the effects of modern Agriculture)

and there are less and less farmers to do it..because so many of their sons are leaving for the cities and so many have lost their lands

Sweet water loss
Our consumption of water is ever increasing and our drinkable water supply is shrinking because of polution ,and the production of potable water is less all the time because of deforestation.
75%of all fresh water is locked in ice and now melting.
running into the sea and lost as a supply of potable water

we are living in a bubble economy and when the bubble bursts
food prices will sky rocket,and so will the price of water.

the wars of the future will be for water and we will be up to our ears in the wrong water

RISING SEAS result in more landloss
The northpole is melting ,and we will know it without ice in our life times.
this does not affect the sea level because it is ice that is already in the water.but the melting ice from Green land and the south pole ,are another matter.

Answer 4

The problem is the "Global Warming Chicken Littles" simply are incapable of logic or thinking for themselves.

Hell, you don't even have to go that far into the past to see temperature spikes ( and drops ), it happened during the middle ages.

Answer 5

Not necessarily - keep in mind that the plates have moved. The major north american plates were not always at their current location - they were much more equatorial in the past.

Also, avacado, magnolia, and dogwood trees are all far younger than 50 million years. Closer to 2 or 3 million, if I recall.

Anyway, remember this: sure, the earth was warmer once. But it's never been because of US. More to the point, do you want to watch coastal cities (NYC, LA, NO, Miami, London, Singapore, Sydney, et cetera) flood as greenland and anartica's ice melts and say, "Well, tough nuts to those folks, this has happened before?"

Answer 6

There are plenty of examples that prove that the earth goes through natural cycles of heating and cooling (another being the ice age) however, the problem with global warming is that WE are doing the changing of the climate and not the enviroment.

Answer 7

Past natural warming is no proof of the absence of present artificial warming.

Answer 8

its going to happen it's part of the cycle how else would we have different periods of time!
just look at generations! and look at a single human they go through stages what would make you think that earth dont!

Answer 9

http://www.ecobridge.org/content/g_evd.htm
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/02/19/MNGE1BECPI1.DTL