Atheism = Alcoholism?

Question

My moyher n law( a recovering alcoholic) stated that 50+ atheists have ,since she began the 12 step program, finally admitted to a higher power. And only after that were they able to begin their healing process. It is about giving up the "control' that you think you have over the universe. The "control" is like a lie that one tells them selves to feel better. a coping mechanism which then might turn into alcoholism. ( I hope my Aunt who was killed by a drunk driver is looking over my family and I)

Answer 1

I am not sure I understand. People who could not control their drinking, converted to the idea that they can't control it in the first place. I'm not sure thats a conversion.

They'd do better off by following the 12-step program and recognizing that it is THEIR problem and they need to OWN it. Admitting and Recognizing the problem was the 1st step. Not trying to figure out if their alcoholism was their mother's fault, their father's fault, the horrible world's fault or a religion figure's fault. That seems like a terrible regression in dealing with their disease.

They do have complete control over their drinking. Alcohol doesn't just force itself down your throat. You went to the bar, You ordered the drink, You drank it along with 20 alcoholic beverages. Give up that control?? They give up that control every single day they drink. Those people claim not to have control when drunk but they should have control each time they order the next round. It's a load of rubbish to not recognize that the problem isn't a lack of control in the world, but a misuse of the control you have over drinking. Keep ordering those drinks and blaming it on whoever you can--and you'll never be anything more than an alcoholic.

Personally, my coping mechanism is to continue to lobby for stricter laws against drunk driving. I personally think they should be charged with 2nd degree murder as they made the conscious decision to get behind the wheel of a car. Drunk isn't an excuse when you pick up a gun and start firing. It shouldn't be an excuse when you drive a huge powerful object into someone's house. The drunk driver themselves never seems to die though. Only intentionally murder innocent people.

Yes religion has its uses but admitting a higher power has nothing to do with them becoming Christian. They could have become any religion. And if that makes them happy, thats fine. I am more than accepting of people finding whatever beliefs make them happy. Of course the Christians in the program aren't really good Christians either in their drunk and abusive state so I don't think they should be counted. But I'm not about to say alcoholism was b/c they didn't believe in religion--but instead b/c they spent too much time in the bar and ABC store. Belief and "giving up control over the universe" has nothing to do with it. Recognizing it is in your control and not just blaming it on that higher power is part of the program though.

Answer 2

The first part of any 12-step program is to admit that you have a problem you cannot handle alone, and to ask a "higher power" to help you. It is stated explicitly that the higher power DOES NOT have to be God, and religion is purposely kept out of many groups. In practice - in my experience - most people already believe in God before they start the program.

Alcoholism runs though both sides of my family as a genetic disease. My father's side is the worst - most of them are devout Lutherans. One uncle has already died as a direct result of his drinking, my father and his other brother are fast following the same route. I have a cousin who is a Lutheran Minister - he is an alcoholic, had at least one child with another woman during his first marriage, and is also addicted to gambling.

My own experience with a 12-step program was with Al-Anon - ie for family and friends of alcoholics. At times I drank a lot myself, but now I don't drink at all. Not because I deliberately stopped, but because I ceased to enjoy it. I am lucky.

I am sorry your aunt was killed by a drunk driver - it is a very large societal problem. But I think it is very wrong of you to take a serious medical condition which affects millions of people and try to use it to further your religious agenda.

Answer 3

This could just as well, if not better, be taken as demonstrating a palliative effect of religion on people who have a particularly awful disease: that the higher power is a lie they tell themselves to try and get themselves/keep themselves in recovery.

As it is I think its just a self-selecting sample. The AA 12 step program is not for everyone trying to recover: other programs exist. The AA 122 step program also places emphasis on a higher power. Those who cannot accept the higher power are more likely to leave AA, whether to another program or back on the booze. So by virtue of this the ones left are more likely to be ones who accept a higher power.

Higher power or no I hope your mother in law remains in recovery.

Answer 4

I don't know where you got that garbage from I know alot more bible thumpers that are alcoholic than atheists. Also in AA the higher power (whatever they concieve a higher power to be) can be anything that the individual believes in and not necessarily GOD. It could be a pet rock!
My mother is an alcoholic and she's a devout Catholic, my Uncle again an everyday common drunk again a Christian. Its a person choice to be an alcoholic nothing else. No higher power forced them to put the bottle to their lips and no so called higher power is going to stop them its themselves that'll stop. If those bible thumpers don't believe in themselves and believe they are in control of their destiny then they aren't. Its all in attitude and nothing else.

Answer 5

You do realize that the 'god' atheists speak of in AA is not a divine being but an ancronym meaning "Good Orderly Direction," right?

And I'm sorry, but I and a growing number of psychologists find serious errors and flaws in the 12 step methodology which do more harm than good. The most important of which is that they emphasizes that the addiction is external, that it is actually IN the alcohol or the narcotic or whatever, and thus that only an external force can fix the problem, which renders the patient a permanent victim to this 'external force'. Further, the locus of control is forever removed from the person, when the locus of addiction is internal, not external.

The end result is you have someone who goes out , is exposed to their substance of choice and have one moment of weakness, and then when they're done, consider themselves hopelessly readdicted and go on a binge, and guess what, get readdicted, instead of stepping back, taking responsibility, and saying, "Hey, I choose to have that drink/hit/puff, so I can choose not to have a second right now."

12 Steps are inherantly destructive cycles of addiction and recovery. This is substantially researched and verified in the medical literature. Programs which keep the locus of addiction and locus of control internal, that is, within the person's body and mind, do not lead to these cycles.

[Major edit: Misinterpreted 'start a 12 step' as being the MiL as being the head person who arranged it for the benefits of others, and not as someone who needed help herself. Oops. Removed a paragraph made irrelevant by the updated understanding]

Answer 6

That is absurd. It takes a strong person to admit they have a problem and actually be strong enough to correct it regardless of faith. I think that the coping mechanism here is Christianity. I find a lot of people turn to Christianity during a hard time bc its easier to cope when you are in the constand mind set of "god will take care of me or, its in gods hands". But in reality...its in your hands and you have the be strong enough to step up and take responsibility for your own actions.

Answer 7

I'm glad to see you dong your Good Christian duty by belittling your Mother in law's plight.
Nothing makes me happier than seeing good old fashioned Christian compassion in action.
Any other family members you're prepared to hang out to dry as examples to fit your narrow minded point of view, Ms. Iscariot?
Alcoholism isn't a "real' problem, it's just another convenient stepping stone for you to justify your hatred and ignorance.
You'd never give a thought for those of us who are recovering, we're not Real people, like you...
Shame on you.

Answer 8

You need to get out and meet more members of the human race.

Sure, some atheists are alcs, as are many christians.

The suggestion that finding God is a nessecity for giving up booze is ridiculous.

Having said that, many drug addicts and alcs DO become christians when they give up their addiction.

Because religious devotion stimulates the release of endorphins, they are merely swapping one addiction for the other.

Answer 9

Illogical at best.
So you convinced already weakened downtrodden people who have had their lives destroyed by alcohol to admit to a god who might heal all their problems? OK, big deal. It is a scam and some fall victim to it.

Answer 10

One wonders then, why alcoholism is an epidemic in the United States and basically not a problem in France, given the pious state of the United States and the atheistic state of France.