Reproductive choice (please read the entire question )?

Question

I asked 2 questions regarding reproductive choice and the overwhelming majority of responses were it is a personal choice *until one needs public money to feed/raise the child.*
Question 1: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AsQb7ic0DsmtFwKEUebXPGjsy6IX?qid=20070421191448AAbPf9l
Question 2:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AiobcwaaEp.piiATGUdfv5zsy6IX?qid=20070421193623AASrGXX


If people feel that reproductive choices are so personal, then why do they get in an uproar about abortion? Isn’t abortion simply one more reproductive choice? For all you logicians out there:
Reproductive choice = Personal decision
Abortion = Reproductive choice
THERFORE:
Abortion = Personal choice

Before you answer, think about how many abortions are done to prevent a child from being born to a woman who does not have the financial resources to support it.
If it is a personal choice only until the need for government assistance, then are you saying a pregnant woman in poverty should be *required* to have an abortion to avoid having yet another person grow up on the welfare system? Please explain.

If you commented on childbearing in relation to the need for public assistance in my previous question, I want to hear from you on this.

A couple of facts to help you with your answer:
89% of abortions are done prior to the 12th week of gestation, when the pregnancy is in the EMBRYO stage, and clearly would not survive outside the womb.

48% of all abortions in America are given to women with incomes less than $30,000.
http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

Nidavellir, you make a good case refuting my thoughts point by point (and Robinson's as well), but are you going to answer the question itself?

Wizzards, I respect your position, but there are sometime extenuating circumstances...like birth control failure, health risks to mother or baby.... rape, incest...
You are certainly entitled to your opinion and beliefs, but I expect the law to provide for people of differing beliefs.

Robinson - ok, if we need to define when life begins, then *who* makes that call? the mother? the legislature? the doctor consulted to perform the procedure?

Answer 1

As I believe I have been 'summoned' based upon my previous answer, I will comply.

Yes, just as pregnancy and childbearing are personal choices, so too do I believe abortion is a personal choice. I am a firm believer that if the fetus cannot sustain itself, naturally or artificially, outside of the womb, then the rights of the woman MUST supercede.

Should women who cannot afford to care for a child without government assistance be required to have an abortion - absolutely not! Again - see 'personal choice'. But that will not keep me from resenting welfare moms from continuing their procreation habits. Notice...I said 'resent' - not refuse. I grew up in a moderately socialist environment, and while I am a diehard capitalist....I believe that it is the responsibility of the whole to ensure the health and safety of all. So while I may resent the few who are irresponsible, I will continue to support them.

Answer 2

Reproductive choice is an important issue. There are many aspects to it, and economics is just one. No girl or woman should be denied an abortion because she can't afford it, which means government funds should be available for this.

On the other side of the productive choice issue are the people who think they should be able to pop out baby after baby and sit back and let the government foot the bill for everything. I used to work next door to a state office of Children and Families. A friend there told me about someone who had been in that day for money. He was living with three women, two of whom were sisters. This man had 21 children and four adults in the household and openly proclaimed his belief that the government should support them all.

My friend said that some applicants would complain about our state's policy to not increase the benefit for people who have more children after applying for assistance. They said the state was trying to penalize them for having children. No, the state employees would say, we are not trying to penalize you, but we're not going to reward you for it, either.

Parenthood is a MAJOR responsibility that should be taken seriously. If every child was wanted and loved, ideally the parents would have planned a way to support the family, no matter how modestly.

Answer 3

I think abortion is a personal choice BUT I think there should be a psychological test done previous to allowing it as well as required therapy afterwards. Having an abortion is never an easy decision and I have know women who have gone through with it and regretted it later. I even worked with a woman who committed sucide over her decision. I can understand why someone would do it (financial issues, child being born with severe and impairing birth defects which would not allow for a normal life for the child, a child of rape, etc.) but even with the most rational reasons given there is still trauma to the mother as well as the father if he is aware of what is happening.

Added:
Why do most people seem to single out low income women/families? I've known prominant women who have had abortions as well as single women who have merely had an abortion because they didn't want any kids, not because they were poor, with out family, and couldn't do it but simply because they didn't want children. One woman was using birth control, had a very well paying job, had a college degree, and simply did not want to have children because of her concern of her families history. When she became pregnant (once again, was using birth control) she was horrified and had an abortion.

Answer 4

The two questions you have referenced were being answered with respect to, primarily, pre-conception contraceptive means.

You can not make the assumption that their reference to the two questions about personal choice was inclusive of abortion simply because the dictionary permits the link to be made.

The means of communicating through English is an inexact means of accurate message transfer.

Your points about not being able to support the child are fair, however, how about we consider asking the child if he/she would rather have been aborted when he/she is old enough to answer. I fell it is unlikely that someone would want to have been aborted.

The primary arguement against abortion is that it is a growing, living human organism. Is it right to terminate it's life? The fact that the child cannot live outside the mother's womb does not negate the fact that it is alive.


Edit: I just thought I would comment on Robinson0120's second edit.

I do agree with him about the arguement that abortion "before the nervous tissue develops" ie. before 5-6 weeks would be an effective means at persuading unsure people about agreeing with early abortions.

I do not believe, however, that his example about performing the abortion before the child can feel pain would be an effective arguement. I would not want to die simply because I could not feel the pain of dieing. If it has become a sentient being (has a partially developed brain) ie. later than 5-6 weeks, I do not believe that the pain arguement would persuade unsure pro-life people at all.

Answer 5

Am a 40 year old female, and been around long enough to have heard the debate about this issue more times than I can count, and have been a part of many debates as well!! We can debate this issue, and espouse our beliefs all we like or we can get down to the REAL issue: PREVENTING UNWANTED PREGNANCY TO BEGIN WITH!
I worked with low income mothers in a Medicaid funded program as a social worker for 10 years. I saw unwanted/unplanned pregnancies again and again. My first goal for anyone, regardless or income, would be to give proper and understandable birth control/sex education to women. Also, to provide them with access to no/low cost birth control. Do some still get pregnant even on birth control? Yes. But with proper, regular use birth control could prevent many an unwanted pregnancy. Then the true choice is whether to use birth control or to engage in unprotected sex , which I always likened to playing russian roulette. One day you will hit the bullet (either an STD/HIV or pregnancy).
As far as I am concerned, debate solves nothing. Education does.

Answer 6

KA... I have to agree with you... even though I personally don't agree with abortion, I don't feel it is my right or anyone elses right to tell someone how much control they should have over their own body. Simply put, you can not legislate morality, and at the end of the day, I doubt ANY woman has an easy time having to chose abortion.

As for those people who are of religious persuasion.. Well, what I normally tell them is this... if god is against abortion, HE will pass judgment on those who chose to abort their child, because it is his judgment, not ours.

Oh and Robinson... I hate to disagree with you brother, but 23 weeks is nothing... What if a woman doesn't even know she's pregnant for the first 23 weeks? Its very possible... not every woman has morning sickness or other signs of a pregnancy.

Answer 7

Absolutely not. Not having a child is not having a child- i.e., never having a zygote fertilized/never carrying a baby to term. On the other hand, eliminating a growing human could be easily termed as murder.

Don't think I'm some wacky militant, though- I'm just disagreeing with your premise. I think that abortions should be legal at least up until the point where nervous tissue begins to develop, since it is impossible that pain or emotion of any sort could be felt. It is at least a compromise that few could argue with.

I am completely for choices. More choices and more freedoms are excellent, but murder is unacceptable, and is therefore important to define when a "life" exists.

The zygote definition makes sense- the growing human specimen has its own DNA. Nonetheless, I like the concept of allowing abortion up until the time when neurons develop. Wikipedia says that that begins at about 5-6 weeks.

EDIT: I decided to look up information about pain receptors (nociceptors), since this would be one ethically justifiable standard for abortion allowance. From...

http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/wwwhuman/FetalPain.htm

I found this:

"While the neurological pathway of cortico-thalamic connections are found at 24–28 weeks of gestation, '..... Evidence regarding the capacity for fetal pain is limited but indicates that fetal perception of pain is unlikely before the third trimester.'"

A conservative estimate of 24 weeks is certainly ample time for a woman to abort an unwanted child, correct? You should be able to find agreement from all except those who believe that a human life starts at zygote formation.

(My educated opinion.)

EDIT II: I just wanted to let you all know that using the statement "it can't survive outside of the mother's womb" does not set well with unsure pro-life advocates who could become pro-choice advocates. Using the pain example (I believe) would probably be a more effective solution, and for the more conservative of the pro-choice individuals, using the "before the nervous tissue develops" would be another useful argument, since something that can feel no pain and have no memory is merely a growing ball of cells.

Just wanted to point that out. I myself certainly don't accept abortion on that principle alone.

Question for the question poster: What about partial birth abortions (which were just outlawed in the United States)- do you think they should be legal, or should the mother have to carry such babies to term (assuming that no threat is posed to the mother)?

Answer 8

I still believe that life begins at fertilization because the cells and later embryo are living things, they grow.

And I still believe that it is a personal choice, although I am against abortion for myself. I have never had one, but I used to counsel girls and women in making them aware of what choices they had when they got pregnant.

Ultimately I think that the choice is between them and God, because that is who they are accountable to, and not to me.

But this is one consequence that people in our society don't think about when they lay down and should be using birth control. It's all about the fun, isn't it?

Answer 9

Another consideration: what to do with the hundreds of thousands of frozen embryos that have already been created and will be created?

Answer 10

Nicely done, KA. I always love a good exposé of hypocrisy. I wonder what argument the anti-choicers will come up with for this one?