Your Iraq war has killed 3,000 Americans, yes, but also 600,000 Iraqis. What do you say about that, America?

Question

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/11/iraq.deaths/index.html

Thank you to everyone who has responded to this question, I have enjoyed reading all of your responses. To set the record straight, I *am* American (and proud to be - though not in the extreme nationalist sense). I found that this war has a cost much higher than media outlets openly publish. The numbers are reliable. It is the most reliable study not just counting gun violence, but all effects of this war on their country. It is holistic, and thus the most accurate measure of our effect on Iraq. It is your war (and mine) because our democratic country voted these people into power. They couldn't do this without our votes (or lack thereof), so we do all share in the moral responsibility. Finally, the real point of this is that EVERY death counts. Not just Americans. Not just blacks (I saw that e-mail powerpoint with the tribute to only black soldiers). Not just anyone, it's all of us. These competitive racial, religious, economic, and genetic divisions are so primitive.

And, finally, the few of you who think it's fun and great that we have killed so many Iraqis, you should probably get the counseling that Seung-Hui Cho needed. I think it's pretty scary to imagine that there are people out there that actually think like this. It's pure evil, nothing less. I'm not entirely surprised, though, because I come from a small town in Louisiana near Barksdale Airforce Base, so I know plenty of people that believe in "peace the old-fashioned way" (e.g., carpet bombing.) I think I need to have a chat with your mothers so I can scold them for raising you to be so inconsiderate.

Answer 1

Personally, I am anguished and outraged by all deaths in war, no matter whose "side" they are on or whose "fault" is is.

The figure of 655,000 is the number of deaths "above what would have occurred without conflict" calculated by the British medical journal The Lancet by comparing the death rate (as a percentage of population) in pre-invasion Iraq with the death rate (as a percentage of population) in post-invasion Iraq. This includes not just deaths by violence; it is also deaths from worsened health and environmental conditions since the invasion.

Not everybody agrees with the figures. http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ counts only Iraqi civilians documented as killed by in military conflict (in Iraq, that includes suicide bombings) and posts a figure of approximately 65,000. The estimate of how many of those were killed by Coalition forces and how many were killed by suicide bombers, etc, varies.

To say that "Saddam killed more" is objectionable both morally and factually.

Morally, nobody's crimes are exonerated by "but he did it too" or "but he did more." Conservatives like to talk about responsibility. We are responsible for what WE do. Somebody else killing Iraqis can and should horrify us; it is US killing Iraqis that shames us.

Factually, Saddam's great massacres were all committed many years before the invasion, during American administrations that did not protest or act against them at the time. Although Saddam was still making critics disappear, the rate at which he jailed, tortured, raped, and murdered his fellow Iraqis in the four years immediately before the invasion has been exceeded by the rate at which Iraqis have been jailed, tortured, raped, and murdered in the four years since.

To say that we are not responsible for the deaths of civilians killed by other Iraqis is also morally bankrupt and legally false. By treaties that we ourselves helped forge, an occupying power is responsible for the protection of the civilians and the civilian infrastructure of the occupied country. If we had not invaded, Saddam would still be brutally repressing ethnic conflict in Iraq; he would be killing people, but they would not be killing each other. We did not like the way Saddam kept order; like teenagers offended at "The System," we destroyed that order without having anything better to put in its place. We created chaos. We are responsible for the consequences.

I am talking about responsibility, not guilt. I do not feel guilty about the Iraq invasion, both because I opposed it, and because weeping and beating my chest doesn't help a single Iraqi. I am still responsible for doing something about it. That I, and all the others who oppose this god-awful war have so far failed to stop it does not mean that our responsibility is ended; it just means that we have to work harder.

Answer 2

Every American is holds the responsibility for the death rate created from the invasion. Though many different groups did make the death tole so large, America played the role of the initiator. Under Saddam there was orderly violence and deaths. Now we must decide what is better, chaotic violence or the orderly violence under Saddam.
As a question more for curiosity I would like to know what country are you from. What you must understand also is that this war is not like WW2, our country is not at war. Our president was questionably elected which is also show of America's opposition of the war. Only 27% of American's still support the war.
I would ask you not to refer to American policy as America's view as a whole. We are a nation divided, a few people do not speak for all. Well we will see if America has changed with the 2008 elections. The elections in 2006 might have been a show America's new views.

Answer 3

Do I agree with a statistic? That's a very silly question. My answer is "no", I don't believe that illegal aliens are killing exactly 12 Americans a day. The fact is that we all came from other countries originally, unless you are a Native American, and who are we to put laws on who else can come and prosper here? The funny thing is that an awful lot of these Republican anti-immigration nutjobs are professing to be Christians, and what could be more rightious than telling people to stay in thier own impoverished country, suffer, and die so that we can have a bit more elbow room. If you are seriously concerned that illegals are killing more of these "rightful" Americans than this pointless and greed fueled war why don't you recommend something intelligent, like stopping the war and spending the billions of dollars that end up in Haliburtons pockets on fixing our poverty situation by creating jobs and funding programs for whoever wants to be a productive part of our society.

Answer 4

There is some comfusion over Bush and Americans.
Bush has an approval rating of about 30%.
That means, we the American people do not support him.
Americans that have tried to confront him get arrested, some disappear, you get the picture?
MOST of the American people never wanting to invade at all. Bush wanted to.
Almost ALL americans now wish we never had.

In short, this is Bush's private war. Oh one other thing, his family is getting rich off the war because they are heavily invested in the defense industry.
Bush and his cronies have said many times "America needs to be prepared to fight a PROLONGED war." I am sure the Bush family will enjoy their war profits for as long as they can keep them coming in.

Another note, Bush wants the world to associate the war with the American people and America, he doesn't want the world to figure out that it is his private war.

There, that is the truth and now I hope I don't disapear into some cia prison.

Bush declaired that opposing him is an act of terrorism. Most Americans are afraid of him, with good reason.

Answer 5

Many Americans are opposed to the Iraq war. I personally think that the Iraq war is a wrong war. It shouldn't be started at the first place. I feel sorry for those who got killed by this war, both Americans and Iraqis. We need a peaceful world. The war should end now. May god help end the war and stop the killings.

Answer 6

Sorry for every live lost on both sides. I'm sure not all Iraqis and Americans are approving of what is happening over there. There are no changes in Iraq so far. Still the Iraqis are the victims. the only new is that Americans also die. The trouble-makers over there have no consideration for their own people and thanks God that the Americans are there. Who knows what would have happened to the entire region by now.

Answer 7

You are right. It is entirely the U.S.'s fault. All those dead "Iraqis." Oh wait. Are we talking about the same people who have hated each others guts for thousands of years. The same people who have fought each other and spilled their neighbors blood for centuries. All over slight differences in religous beliefs and political agendas. Yep thats our fault. Never mind the fact that they love killing each other. Why wouldn't you want to die when life sucks and theres 99 hot arabian virgin chicks waiting for you in the afterlife? And you get to hang out with Allah. Thats gotta be pretty cool. As long as he doesn't go stealing any virgins from you.
Iraq should never have been a country to begin with. The west, "Britain" set those boundaries over a century ago. Forcing tribes that do not like each other, Sunni, Shiite, Kurd, Christian, Jew, Psycho, Etc to live under one government and a set of borders. That sounds like a great idea.
At this point they need states within Iraq. A senate based on religion types and a house of representatives based on local populations.
a side note... If our government here in the United States is the best form of governing in the world, wouldn't it just naturally spread across the world. Is it not interesting that we try to seal off one of our borders depriving people of our great Democracy while we go to great lengths and huge expenses to invade a country with the intention of spreading Democracy halfway across the world.
I say make Mexico the 51'st state wether they like it or not. Sweet vacation property down there. Might as well do it before we are all espeaky espanoly anyway. And turn Iraq into number 52. We start by pulling the boys outa there and turning the whole mother lovin country into a slightly radioactive parking lot. Followed shortly thereafter by our best oil producing state. Watch out Texas. The only disadvantage I see is we would have more soccer on T.V.

Answer 8

or the death rate created from the invasion. Though many different groups did make the death tole so large, America played the role of the initiator. Under Saddam there was orderly violence and deaths. Now we must decide what is better, chaotic violence or the orderly violence under Saddam.
As a question more for curiosity I would like to know what country are you from. What you must understand also is that this war is not like WW2, our country is not at war. Our president was questionably elected which is also show of America's opposition of the war. Only 27% of American's still support the war.

Answer 9

MOST of those 600,000 Iraqis that you are talking about are insurgents and if not, the Iraqi people were hiding them out, and planting car bombs. We didn't start this war,Osama Bin Laden did and if our military didn't go over there, the insurgents would be over here and committing more terrorism and the American casualties would be devastating.

This is what Senator John Glenn said:
There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January 2005. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January of 2005. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.
OOOHHHH, one more thing. President was offered bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and he did NOTHING. Osama bin Laden has attacked us multiple times.

Answer 10

War is hell. Sunni and Shea are the ones killing each other. They were killing each other long before Americana's arrived. It can be argued that we have worsened the tension among Sunni and Shea, but we don't make them fight. It is sad that Sunni and Shea are killing each other. America is trying to stop them from from fighting. It is not America's fault that Sunni and Shea are killing each other. very few of the 600,000 Iraqi deaths are the result of Americans. If you review the U.N. reports the death rates among Sunni Shea deaths have not increased significantly since America arrived. So blaming Americans for internal feuding in Iraq is ridiculous. This is not America's war. The war on terror is a global problem.

Answer 11

First of all, the Americans have not directly killed that many Iraqis, the insugency has, and the insurgents aren't made up of American soldiers they are made up of Sunni, Shia & Al Qaeda members. The sooner the Iraqis settle their gov't and clean up the mess the sooner we can leave. Don't call this Americas war. It's George Bushes war! Our soldiers just happen to be the ones fighting for???????????