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1. Is your god all powerful or all knowing? Do not say both as it is a logical impossibility: to be all powerful would be to change things at his whim, to be all knowing would be to know exactly what will happen in the future. You cannot have a being capable of changing events at a whim if the future is known, as no influence is necessary and to change events is to change the future so he knew a false time line prior to his actions and therefore wasn't all knowing. So which is he?

2. If he is all powerful, is it possible for him to create a rock so large he cannot lift it? Either it is impossible for him to create something so massive he could not lift it as he is capable of impressive strength or he is powerful enough to make something he cannot move. See the problem with being all powerful? It's impossible and I defy you to refute this.

3. If he knows everything, how can we have free will as the future has been played out already in his eyes. We have no choice but what he knows.

2007-04-21 05:05:46 · 18 answers · asked by Brian 2 in Society & Culture Religion & Spirituality

#3 was shortened because it didn't give me enough words left.

If god does know what we will do, can we do something else? Nope, there never was a choice, it was simply an illusion of choice as God would know what we actually are going to do whether we know it or not. So simply put, a God that knows all knows what our choice is despite any thinking on our part and therefore the idea of predestined futures and choices are mutually incompatible. Ergo, if your god knows all, then we have pre-destined futures and our actions are simply the process of going through the paces of existance. That is to say, he knew the holocaust was to happen and didn't lift a finger to stop people from being murdered. A loving god indeed.

2007-04-21 05:24:06 · update #1

18 answers

1. Despite your protests, it is both. He can do whatever he wants-- if he wanted to, he could terrorize us. But, you forget that he is also all-loving, and doesn't want anything bad to happen to us.

2. God can do anything he wants. This strange logic seems to put limits to his powers, but he is all-powerful BEYOND HUMAN knowledge. Even if we tried, not even Einstein could understand God. You need faith to believe in God, not scientific facts.

3. He knows everything that we will do. He could limit our freedom and intervene when we are about to do something bad, but HE CHOOSES not to. He knows everything that is, was and will be. He doesn't feel like tampering with it.

If you want, e-mail me and let's have a good theological argument: go_leafs_nation@yahoo.ca

2007-04-21 05:12:54 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 0 1

You know how dogs and cats are kinda stupid? They don't really know what is best for them? Well, we are the same way with God. There are some things that we will never fully understand. You know, like how God has existed forever and will exist forever.

1.Okay, God is both all powerful and all knowing. They don't actually rule each other out! God is capable of doing anything and everything, but that doesn't mean He has to do it. Just because I'm capable of jumping off a cliff doesn't mean I'm going to.

2. Why would God do that?

3. God gave us the choice to do this or that, but He already knows what we're going to do. Also, God isn't bound by time. He can go into the past or the future. Of course this is an entirely different subject... it raises lots of questions. Humans aren't supposed to understand God in everything He does.

I hope I've cleared things up for you and not confused you more. If you can, ask a pastor his thoughts about your questions.

2007-04-21 12:27:04 · answer #2 · answered by Jaycie 4 · 0 0

1. He could know what HE's going to do next, that way it's both. Also, if God is not bounded by time, then there is no 'next' for him.

2. Omnipotent is generally thought only to cover what is actually LOGICALLY possible. For example, if God can't create a cup that is both completely full and completely empty at the same time, that doesn't seem to create a problem. Also, he could CHOOSE to limit himself.

3. Lots of theories of free choice define it as the freedom to decide according to rationality or your best interests - thus even if your choice couldn't have been otherwise, you still chose it yourself.

The idea of God is not logically contradictory, but I don't think it's possible to PROVE it logically either. We just can't prove metaphysics using physics. What that means is, although we can disagree on this, neither of us can say the other is stupid or irrational or ignoring the evidence. I think the best way to find out whether God exists is to search for him and see if you find him. I think he does (and that we can communicate with him) but I can't try and force you to, either physically or rationally.

2007-04-21 12:23:04 · answer #3 · answered by Marie Antoinette 5 · 0 0

What you fail to appreciate is that God exists outside of time and space. He does not know what "will happen in the future" because to God there is no future. He sees the fullness of time simultaneously. At this very moment (from our perspective - God has no "moments") God is seeing the creation of the universe taking place. He is seeing Jesus dying on the cross. He is seeing my birth and my death, and those of my descendants 50,000 years from now. So, God does not "know what will happen before it happens". Rather, He knows all things that happen within the course of time because He is actually seeing them happen. He is seeing our choices of free will, but watching someone making a choice doesn't affect the freedom of that choice. The fact that God is watching every free choice of your entire lifetime from an eternal perspective doesn't affect the freedom of your choices any more than if I watched you making such choices from a temporal perspective.

Being all-powerful means not being preventd by lack of power from doing something. It does not mean that He will actually use His power to change everything that could be changed. It also does not mean that God can do anything at all without limitation. Though there is nothing God cannot do for lack of power, there are certainly things He cannot do because they would violate His divine and perfect nature. For example, God cannot learn - not because He lacks the power to do so, but because He is by nature all-knowing.

Similarly, God cannot make a rock so large He cannot lift it because God by nature is all-powerful. Therefore if there were a rock He couldn't lift, He would not be God. So this silly question is really asking if God can create a situation in which He is not God. No, He cannot, not because He lacks the power to do so, but because God by nature is eternal, and therefore there can be no time or situation in which He is not God.
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2007-04-21 12:19:12 · answer #4 · answered by PaulCyp 7 · 0 1

1. Beleive it or not, he is BOTH and with God, it is possible! Your logic on this question is messed up.

2. He can make a rock so large that no one that has the Power of God in him (the Holy Spirit) cannot lift it by mere strength, thus forfilling the requirement of making a rock so large that He cannot lift, but just like in Matthew 22:18-22 if a person truely has 100% faith, he can simply command it to move, and it will do it! God can tell the rock to move! No, there will be no giant coming down and lifting it, but if God decides it is time to move it will.

3. We do have free will, if we make a decisions of 2 choices, God knows what will happen, He knows all and He knows that with whatever our decision is, what the outcome will be.

2007-04-21 12:16:45 · answer #5 · answered by ? 2 · 0 1

1. Heh hee. You are trying to put limits on God that you have. He will know exactly what happens in the future. He knows how you will use your free will.

God is not composed of space or matter, God is also not bound by time. God is outside of time. Being outside of time means to exist in an " eternal or unending now", and eternal present that includes the past, present and future simultaneously.

He is both.

2. Creator is always bigger than any created things. And that is His character. You do not understand the concept of all powerful. God is all powerful within His Character, so it is against His character to be something what He is not...to be smaller than something He creates.

The argument from Creation proves not only that God exists, but that He has power. Only God with incredible power could create and sustain the whole universe. His energy would have to be greater than all the energy that was never available in the whole Creation, for He not only caused all things, He holds them together and keeps them in existence and still sustains His own existence. That is more power that we can imagine. Remember, God is not like us. We are made in the image of God, that means that we now right from wrong.

3. God gave us our free will. But He also knows how we are going to use it.

PS: It feels great to rely on God's understanding. I do not have to know everything in His business to realize that His promises are good and kind. : )

2007-04-21 12:27:25 · answer #6 · answered by SeeTheLight 7 · 1 0

(1) The premises are false. Omnipotence does not imply capriciousness.

(2) The argument is a logical impossibility, not limitation of God's agency. Can God paint Thursday green?

(3) Free will and determinism are issues for atheists, too. Many philosophical atheists are determinists, you should know. As to your question, God knowing what you will do does not hinder your free choice in doing it. When I have lunch with my father, I know he will order sweet tea and knowing this influences his decision in not the slightest way.

2007-04-21 12:38:20 · answer #7 · answered by Aspurtaime Dog Sneeze 6 · 0 0

1-2. What Does "All-powerful" Mean?
God accomplishes everything He chooses. He is capable of doing all those things which are logically possible and consistent with His perfect nature.

Biblical Teaching
God’s name [El Shaddai] implies strength/power.
(Gen. 17:1; Ex. 6:3; Is. 1:24; Amos 4:13; Jn. 17:11)

God says of Himself and angels declare that He is all-powerful.
(Gen. 18:14; Is. 46:10; Jer. 32:27; Lk. 1:37)

God’s power is incomparable to anything/anyone in all of creation.
(2 Cr. 20:6; Is. 40:25-26; Eph. 1:19-20)

God’s power is displayed in miracles for redemptive purposes.
(Acts 3:1-4:4; 9:32-42)

God’s power is supremely demonstrated in accomplishing and completing our redemption.
(Is. 52:10; Mt. 19:26; Jn. 5:21; Heb. 7:25; 1 Pt. 1:5; Jude 24-25)

God displays His power sometimes:

Directly: in creation ex nihilo (out of nothing), Gen. 1:1; spiritual re-creation, 2 Cor. 5:17; judgment, Gen. 11:5-9; miraculous birth of Isaac and Christ, Gen. 21:1-2; Lk. 1:35; Gal. 4:29; resurrection of Christ, 1 Cor. 6:14; Eph. 1:19b-20; divine healings wrought by Christ, Lk. 5:17; 6:19.
Indirectly, in the cosmic disturbances that brought judgment upon Sodom & Gomorrah, Gen. 19; the plagues of Egypt, Ex. 8:2; 9:3, 14; 10:14; by revealing Himself in creation, Rom. 1:20.
Both directly and indirectly through human agency and divine causation, e.g., Cyrus, Is. 45:9-13. And through the Jews, Romans (= "wicked men"), our own sin, and God’s purposes, Acts 2:23.
Are There Limitations to God's Power?
Sometimes God is able to accomplish more than He actually does, Mt. 3:9; Rom. 9:22; Eph. 3:20
But, some things God could never accomplish. He cannot:

Change His mind so as to alter his purposes, Num. 23:19-20
Lie, Tit. 1:2; Heb. 6:18
Be tempted by evil nor tempt anyone with evil, Jm. 1:13
Condone sin, Hab. 1:13
Cease to exist, Gen. 21:33; Is. 40:28; Ps. 90:2
Do what is logically impossible, 2 Tim. 2:13
Note: All of these ‘inabilities’ are really signs of strength rather than weaknesses.

3. Furthermore, if God knows all things and knows what we are going to choose, then by definition, we are still making the choice; after all, the argument says that God knows what "we are going to choose." If we are going to choose" something, then we really are making the choice -- otherwise it wouldn't be logical to assert that God knows what we are going to choose. Choice implies the ability to decide between different options. Again, by definition if God is knowing what we are going to choose, then He knows what we are going to choose between options...otherwise we are not choosing anything and the statement is illogical.
Back to the bowl of dead mice. The father, however, is not omniscient where God is. But does this difference negate the analogy? Not at all. Knowing what a person will do still does not force them or limit them to doing what is known. The complaint of those who say that if God knows what we are going to do then we don't have "real" freedom is logically stating that God's foreknowledge of an event somehow limits the event and the choice of the individual. The complaint implies that there is an action by God upon a person that negates His freedom to choose. It would be up to the complainer to establish some logical connection between what God knows what will happen and the mind of the one who makes a choice so that the mind of the person making the choice no longer is making a choice. It seems that the critics are saying that the choice-maker is affected by God's knowledge to such an extent that his freedom is lost. If that is the case, then can they prove this logically? If not, then how can they maintain their position?
God's knowing what we will choose is a function of His omnipresence since He is in all places all the time. If He were not, He would not know what choices were were freely going to make. To deny that God is all knowing, even of the choices we make, is to deny His omnipresence and reduce God's nature to something more like ourselves, which would be a mistake.
Nevertheless, some people try and claim that God does not know what we will freely choose. But, this cannot be since it would violate the biblical teaching that God knows all things.

2007-04-21 12:11:38 · answer #8 · answered by Anonymous · 1 2

The weakness of God is far stronger than the strength of man.
The foolishness of God is far wiser than the wisdom of man.
God is in fact all powerful and all knowing. HE IS BOTH. Like it or not, it is in fact true. Saying it is impossible doesn't make it so.
We have free will to eather accept his grace and believe in his Son Jesus, that Jesus died for our sins and was resurected giving us eternal life through Him, or we can choose to reject Him, and suffer the ultimate results. It is our own choice. God gave us the template of our own lives, and gave us the results of our choices. It's up to us to make the final decision.
Personally, I've chosen God, and for better or worse, I'd make the same choice if I could choose again, and I'd definately recommend you give some thought to it too. The Bible is the best way to learn about God. Read it, learn from it, put your life right with God.

2007-04-21 12:17:49 · answer #9 · answered by dannyo66 3 · 0 1

Neither and both, and let me explain why. God, to me, is not a separate entity to anything else in existence. I define God as the collection of allness, everythingness, and oneness that excludes nothing. Therefore, God is as you, me, the plants, trees, sky, and all else--including sinners. As we create, we are doing God's work--not for him, but as him. But don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I am God. I am saying that all as one is God. With that, it is possible for God to be all-knowing as well as all powerful--however, it is also possible to be neither.

2007-04-21 12:15:09 · answer #10 · answered by Gela 2 · 0 1

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