How can Christians base anti-abortion views on something their own bible tells them is impossible to know?

Question

Ecc 11:5 "As you do not know the path of the wind, or how the body is formed in a mother’s womb, so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things."

If we cannot know exactly how a baby is formed, how can Christians claim that they know that the soul enters the fetus at the moment of conception? They claim this is fact, and that it proved that abortion is evil.

I don't want to debate abortion right now. I'm too tired and that's not my point. The point is that the bible says that we cannot know what is going on as a fetus develops. Science has proven this too to be untrue (surprise). We also are pretty sure how wind works.

A few people have noted that GOD knows what happens in the womb. It is not relevant what GOD knows. Christians claim that THEY know, and this verse says that they don't.

HB proudly insists that I am wrong but doesn't bother to refute any of my points.
Spiritroaming: I don't recall arguing that the body is not formed in the womb. This passage just says that you and I do not and cannot know exactly how it is formed.

I'm getting a lot of convoluted and silly answers. PLEASE note ONE MORE TIME the point of my question. I have not argued that the quoted passage condones abortion, or that the any other part of the bible condones abortion, or that abortion is good, or that abortion is bad, or that abortion is moral, or that abortion is immoral. Nor have I made any distinctions between children and choices, not have I made any moral judgements about people who support or oppose abortion. My point was very simply that modern Christians argue that abortion is wrong because life begins at conception. They do not argue, at least not when I am listening, that abortion is wrong because the bible says so, or because John the Baptist leapt in his mother's womb, etc. Their claim is that the soul is created/enters the fetus when the sperm meets the ovum. The passage does challenge or contradict this, but it does state that we cannot be cognizant of what happens in the womb. Read first, then answer.

Gorgeoustxwoman, I’m going to examine your claims fairly one by one. I’m doing this because I noticed that no one else bothered to. This is probably because you sited scripture, and Christians tend to be very unfamiliar with scripture.

“The Bible approves of killing pregnant women: Genesis 38:24, Numbers 31:17”
The first is true, the second is vague. It says to kill all the women who are not virgins but makes no distinction between pregnant or not. However, it does not specifically exclude pregnant women from the slaughter.

“The Bible approves of abortion: 2 Kings 15:16”
This is an example of abortion, but the bible doesn’t seem to condone or condemn this.

“People are not counted as persons until they are a month old: Numbers 3:15”
I don’t think this counts, as it seems to refer only to a census.

“The Bible contains directions on how to abort any pregnancy caused by adultery: Numbers 5:12-31”
No; there is nothing here about pregnancy or abortion, only instructions on how to do a magic spell to humiliate an adulteress. Perhaps the abdominal swelling would kill a fetus, but this is too much of a stretch.

“The Bible says that being aborted is better than living a bad life: Ecclesiastes 6:3-5, Matthew 26:24”

“A stillborn child is better off than he.” This is too vague to consider an endorsement of abortion. It doesn’t say that it is okay to cause a child to be stillborn. It only says that a man who cannot enjoy his prosperity is worse than a stillborn child. MT 26:24 could only be used to support abortion if you knew that the child would never be a Christian.

The Bible says that a person becomes a living soul when he BREATHES the BREATH of life into his nostril (fetuses don't breathe): Genesis 2:7
This point is valid but a Christian could argue that this only applies to Adam. Too vague to consider.

So, only two of these points are really valid. You shouldn’t find it surprising that the bible does not condone abortion—it does seem to be contrary to God’s will. But the truth is that using a holy book as a basis for moral or legal judgments is simply absurd.

Answer 1

your back-up for your questions shows clearly that you have done VERY little research in both the Bible as well as the growth of the fetus.

before you make statements of this magnitude you should research a little more so you at least "look" like you know what you are talking about.

you are incorrect on both counts.

Answer 2

First of all it has to be noted that Biblically a person is a body and a spirit which is a living soul. Where there is a baby or "fetus" there is life and thus a spirit while the body is being formed and thus life. Adam was formed but only lived when God breathed "the breath of life" into him making him a "living being".

In Ecc 11:5 the word wind is better translated "spirit" so it is not easy for man to know the way of the spirit without the Spirit. We still do not really know how bones grow. Think about it- we know what they are made of and how they function and what the end result of their growth will be but we do not know how the micro chemistry works for them to grow or else we would be able to grow back lost limbs medically.

While there are examples where the Bible mentions children being ripped out of there mothers and the like, it is more a prophecy of what was going to happen and not God ordering it to happen. If you killed a woman and the child she was bearing , it was stated to be a violation of God's will (Exodus 21:22-24). Some people have already mentioned that you are assuming that when someone does something in the Bible it is right -not so. David commited adultery with Bathsheba but that does not mean the Bible promotes it. David sinned and violated God's commandment as the rest of the Bible tells us. You are commiting a grave error to miss such a basic point because it is resulting in you misrepresenting the scripture.

Answer 3

Not knowing HOW the body is formed in a mother's womb, doesn't mean I don't know that it happened (I don't know exactly HOW a bumblebee flies, but I know it does). The fact that John the baptist leapt in his mother's womb when Mary came to stay with Elizabeth, shows there is very much the presence of the soul and spirit within the womb. And all the (mis)quotes from the Bible won't change that. If you take any verse out of context, then you can make a facade of a case. Did you know for instance, that the Psalmist king David wrote a sentence that states "There is no God."? See Psalm 14:1 to see that taken out of context it could be used by atheists. But in context, then the picture is very different.
Why do people think Numbers 31 talks about rape, murder and abortion when these things are not even mentioned, and are never described in these chapters. Likewise taken out of context, verses that speak of the joy of those who dash the children to the floor is not about abortion, but about the relief of the conquering army of finally completely destroying their hated former subjugators. God actually prohibits causing the death of an unborn baby, even demanding the death sentence for so doing. The Bible is absolutely clear that a child in the womb is exactly that – a child, deserving – requiring – the full protection of the Law: -
22 ¶ "If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows [to either the woman or the child], he shall [still] surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 "But if any harm follows [to either child or woman], then you shall give life for life,
24 "eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 "burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
(Ex. 21:22-25).

Note that the above-quoted passage mentions no mitigating circumstances, e.g. they had unintentionally caused the birth, so this law was meant as a controlling law within towns and villages. Note too that even if no injury or death is caused, the men who caused the premature birth would still be liable for monies as claimed by the husband and determined by the judges (e.g. medical bills, etc).
Normally, manslaughter (the accidental killing of a person) in the Bible meant that the perpetrator could flee to one of several designated cities, so that they could avoid the vengeance of the victim’s family. However, if they were found by the leaders of the city to have actually murdered the victim, and so the cause was not accidental, then they were to be forced to leave the city for the capital punishment they deserved. Yet the above Bible passage shows it is enforced even for ACCIDENTALLY causing the premature birth/miscarriage. This shows how important God regards the life of a child in the womb (and obviously outside the womb too). Be sure God regards abortion, except to save the life of the mother, as murder: sin will find you out, and nothing can save you from the penalty for sin, EXCEPT believing, confessing your sins to Christ and accepting Him as your Lord, God and Saviour.

Answer 4

That verse (Ecc 11:5) was being spoken to the people in that time period....they had no way of knowing, no ultrasounds and no meteorological info.
If you want to read and understand the Bible, you have to study the context of what you are reading. You just can't pull a verse out of context.
May I ask how you can be so ignorant as to not believe that life begins at conception with all the information that you do have at hand that is perfectly in context. You do have the benefit of modern technology...so why are you choosing to be ignorant about it??

Answer 5

you're taking that verse out of context, but you right in that some people think they know when "life starts" when they don't. But you know what, it's irrelevant when life starts. The point is that even if the embryo is not "alive" it will be. It is a potential life, and an abortion takes that life away. The last time I checked, taking a life is killing.

Granted, there are instances in where abortions are necessary, but just do avoid a mistake? not the answer.

Answer 6

There are lots of scriptures referring to sanctity of life as God sees it. Here are a few: Psalm 139:13-15 (NIV) 13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

Answer 7

It says you cannot know how the body is formed- it doesn't say you cannot know that the body IS formed.

As for myself, a Christian, I base it on the fact that all human life is sacred, no matter what stage of development it is in. Being the mother of three children, and seeing those ultrasound pictures that wonderful science has given us, I am totally against abortion.

I am also against the death penalty.

Answer 8

You and I don't know, but Go ddoes.

From the New American Standard Translation: Psa 139:13 For You have possessed my inward parts; You have covered me in my mother's womb.
Psa 139:14 I will praise You; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Your works are marvelous and my soul knows it very well.
Psa 139:15 My bones were not hidden from You when I was made in secret and skillfully formed in the lowest parts of the earth.
Psa 139:16 Your eyes saw my embryo; and in Your book all my members were written, the days they were formed, and not one was among them.

Answer 9

The question is about anti-abortion views, not about life, it's sanctity (or not) or when life starts. The Bible clearly states that abortion is wrong. So for me this is the basis of my anti-abortion view. The Bible also predicts our uncaring, cynical and self righteous attitude to abortion - and this is another proof of the relevance of God's Word.

Jer 2:33 Why trimmest thou thy way to seek love? therefore hast thou also taught the wicked ones thy ways.

Jer 2:34 Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these.

Jer 2:35 Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me. Behold, I will plead with thee, because thou sayest, I have not sinned.

Answer 10

in Psalms David writes that God "knit me together in my mother's womb." The Bible always speaks of us having life at conception.

Btw, the verse you quote was speaking to that time, and yes, in the time it was written, they didn't know how a baby was formed. He was using an example that was relevant at the time.

Answer 11

Have you not read the first chapter of Jeremiah? "Before you were formed in the belly, I knew you".
Why does this have to be spelled out for you in scripture: "DO NOT ABORT".
in order for you to understand what murder is and what murder is not? Are we really that lost as the human race? Was a life trying to grow inside the woman? Was that life taken out of the belly? Then guess what:
you just ended life. gee, thats difficult.