60's 912 or early 70's 911?

Question

Miss having a classic to kick around in and have been thinking of one of the two. This would be my first porsche. Any ideas or opinions on them? Common troubles, likes, dislikes, favorite models and so forth. Not neccessarily looking for a high end collector, race car, or a garage/trailer queen. I want something me and the girl can jump in and cruise the back highways of Wisconsin in.
Also, what are some of the popular/recommended upgrades and/or add-ons for these two? Engine swaps?
And before it's mentioned...yes, I do know it's an old car. Things will need to be replaced/fixed/maintained. Not afraid at all. Used to overhaul engines and have well over 100 rebuilds under the belt. Fabrication isn't out of the question either. I'm leaning toward a lower $ car (not a clunker) just so I can fix it up and make it my own. I do prefer the cardboard to the recliner, lol.

Sorry, dont want to offend anyone, but 914's, 928's, and 944's are out.
Always wondered why the 944 and 928 were so cheap-thanks to some other answers I've read on here-I now know why.
And the 914's just dont have the look I like. Remind me of those Triumph cars, not a porsche.
Not going cheap bc I have to. Just dont see a point in spending a lot if I'm gonna take it apart and make it my own.
Just want the low down on the 912's and early 911's (up to 73-74)

Kyle-hope I have that problem some day, lol. It started with one of the first 911 turbo AWD ads I seen in a magazine. Coming around a corner with the caption "Like peanut butter to the roof of your mouth" Who doesn't want a car like that????

I'm looking at the 911/912 for a few reason. I think driving a porsche is a privledge. Not in the money aspect, but in a driver's aspect. Any true porsche fan/driver will back me on that I'm sure. I want to start at the basics, where it started. But I only have enough to take me so far back, lol. (ie-356 in my dreams). I'd be cheating myself and the porsche legacy if I just up and bought a boxster or something of the sort. Earn my stripes kind of thing. A combination of a LOVE for driving and a deep appreciation for how it used to be.

Wow, lots of great comments and answers! I'll have to put this one to a vote and let you guys decide the best answer.
I also found this little page, a good reference if you dont have all this memorized already, lol.

http://www.the-classic-sports-cars.com/porsche-car-specs.html

Answer 1

First of all, you've got some great answers up above; definitely take all that into consideration. If you're absolutely dead set on the era you've mentioned, I'd go 911 over 912 just because the price will be about the same, but you'll get more power.

For just a few more dollars, though, you can get a 911SC, which is a relatively bullet-proof 911; a great driver. For the ultimate in "real" 911s, you have to step up to the 1987-89 Carrera, which has a much nicer clutch, chain tensioners, and EFI system than its predecessors.

Answer 2

Your best bet would be a '69-73 & 1/2 model 911, or the 1978-83 SC models. Stay away from the 75-77 with the 2.7 engine, or if you buy one, plan on installing a 3.0 engine in it as soon as possible.

A 912 is just a 911 body with the old 356 4-cylinder engine in it. It looks pretty but is pretty much a dog to drive, and getting any power out of a 356 motor is a pretty expensive proposition---and a 911 will still kill you.

Don't butcher an early 911 with modifications. If you must modify the car, do so respectfully, with brake or suspension upgrades.

Most people think they are smarter than Porsche engineers when it comes to engine modifications, and most end up very wrong.

Answer 3

Couple fun cars. Some very different characteristics between them too based on the engine's power, but all how much weight is sitting out over the back of the car. For alot of what you are describing, I think you might have trouble finding the right 912. Maybe not - but I've noticed in the last 5 years that most of the 912s coming up for sale tend to be fully restore or cars that have always been in Concours condition (when cars get old enough, we tend to lose most of the lesser examples, and it seems like this is now hitting the 912 market).

If you find a 912, they are good cars. Fun cars too... but ultimately, they are left feeling like they are missing something compared to the 911. And what it is of course is power. Older 911s are also suffering some of the same as far as lesser examples becoming much rarer... but there are quite a few 911s around, and an early 911T might be out there (I think any of the 911E's or S's will be in generally good condition and likely demand premium pricing).

Speaking of pricing, while it can be fun to fix it up on your own, I would advise one thing to keep in mind: buying a 911 in good condition is much much MUCH less expensive than fixing one up. Be very careful how much work will be required!

As for engine swaps, just about any of the later air cooled engines can be put into the early 911s without too much trouble. Though the stock engines are actually pretty well matched to these cars; another option would be to upgrade some of the parts from the 911S or 911RS to improve performance of the existing engine.

Some may also mention V8 swaps, but I've never seen this work out well with a 911... while it fits and can actually improve front to back weight distribution, the V configuration has a center of gravity a few inches higher than the dry sump boxer. As a result the car will not do well in corners.

Though, based on everything you mention, I think you might want to consider looking at a slightly newer 911? Something like a 911SC would probably cost less than one of the earlier 911s, have a galvanized body which would make it more appropriate for your home area. They are at least a little more modern though still clearly related to the earlier cars. And they are very reliable. And I think you are more likely to find a selection of cars in good, but not great condition with this vintage ('1978-1983).

Answer 4

I've owned a 1970T Targa and a 1963 T-6 356b. I would opt for the 911 over the 4 banger 912. The 912 sits kinda weird and is somewhat under powered. The 356 seems lighter and quicker than the 912. 911's are rocket fast compared to the 356 and the 912 with better cornering ability too. Do your homework, check out every inch of the car. Good luck!

Michael/mrPORSHA

Answer 5

Standard restorers motto- Buy the best body you can afford.

Me I am a 911 kind of guy. The 912 just doesn't have the cache that a 911 has. The potential for doing "stuff" to a 911 is great! Man you can mix and match components, suspension, brakes, engines, trans from so many different 911's that it boggles the mind and there is a lot of web rosource to guide you as well as the Porsche Club N. A.

I think you would be happier with the 911 long term.

Things to avoid- Semi auto gearbox from the VW parts bin-they are all over the cheap 70's 911's.

The sky is the limit- Ever heard of a 2.7L RS??????? Screaming and popular resto-rod kind of thing(other just call them FAKE) but FUN!

ASE Auto tech Shop Owner, British Car restorer and semi-porsche-o-phile

Answer 6

72' 911 w/ the old black and silver cookie cutter wheels. She'll test your skills, and she'll make you wet your pants.

Wanted one but ended up with a 72' 914 instead. Sure they aren't that much to look at, but till you hug a freeway exit ramp at 130mph in one and feel that peanut butter, you forget how ugly they are.

914 was originally built and tested and it beat the 911. Porsche couldn't have this, so they allowed VW to put in the Bus pancake engine and other VW parts to slow it down. Stock 911 parts bolt right up to a 914, in turn one is able to create the original, the one that can beat a 911.

They remind me more of the Fiat X19 over the Triumph. Buddy's brother had a 71' or 72' 911 when I was growing up, you'll enjoy her. Plus there are many catalogs and companies out there that supply every part you could ever need, even moldings, rubber gaskets, emblems, etc. So don't be afraid of not finding parts. There is a company in Georgia that does 914's only, even restores them and then sells them.

If you are only use to basic American engines, it is a challenge to learn points, old fuel injection rails, etc. But fun at the same time in how simplistic it is. Once you get one, I do recomend becoming a member of the local Porsche club, they can help you thru hard times and questions.

Answer 7

If those are the cars youre looking at, i would go for the 911. The 912s just dont have the same spunk. Itll leak/burn a bit of oil, itll have its bumps and rattles, but it should be a decent car. Theyre so light and so fun to throw around.

that being said, and I assume you know this, and i do know that you know what youre doing, Spending a bit more on a classic porsche saves you 5 fold down the road, at least. One in pretty good shape wont be much more than a pretty rough one, so go for the better one. Itll save you many a headache.

that being said, if i were (and heck, i did) buying an older P car, i would look at a 930. Theyre just so much more fun, and so much more awesome to drive. Theyre more refined, much faster, and overall great cars. I bought an 87 4 months ago. Seriously an awesome car (and im used to my 996 GT2). Dont know what kind of budget youre looking at, but you can pick up a good example for around 22k. They also are appreciating in value.

A good place to look for good examples of these are the classifieds on the porsche club of america website (local regions also)@ pca.org

heres a warning though: Porsches are addictive. One day you may wake up and just say "my god, where did all of these cars come from, and where did all my money go!?"

Answer 8

I'd recomend a '76 912E. These are not as powerful as the earlier 912 or 911, but can be modified to deliver more HP with minimal expense, though they are better-balanced than the 911, and perfect for the driving you describe. The 912E's are very reliable, durable, and are among the first galvanized / rust-resistant Porsches. The only problems with these are expense related to the fuel-injection and exhaust systems.

See links below for more info on 912, 912E, tech and performance forums, classifieds, etc.:

Answer 9

Look for a 356, then a 911

Answer 10

Don't shoot me down on this one, but I owned a 70' - "914" back in 81'. I had to listen to the snide remarks, like..... ooooo, nice Volkswagon, can't afford a "real" Porsche ?, etc.
Let me tell you that sweetie moved, 120mph+ any time I asked! 30+ mpg, top popped off and slid right in the trunk, babes LOVED it, left notes on the windshield, and friends were constantly trying to borrow it.
I toed out the back tiers a couple of degrees and bolted a 50lb. plate of steel in the trunk for stability and drove the crap out of it.
I sold it in 1986 for $4,000.00.....I payed only $2,500
they are hard to find today, but worth buying 2 for parts. Fun to drive, easy to repair, maintain and cherry out.