All great nations inevitably end up committing suicide. Do you agree and why?

Question

Sam S,
surely there have always been immigrants, it doesn't mean they don't want the best for the country they live in.
I think we stand a better chance if we are united.
I have found people from other counties very interesting and pleasant.
I do think where you live may colour the way you feel...
I also think divided we fall!

Gosh you are giving me so many good answers, I am having to read them several times so the words sink in.

Thanks a lot!

Answer 1

Disagree for the following reasons-

1.) A nation is a group of people, and mass suicide is not so common.
2.) Cultural artefacts that define a nation can live long after all members of the nation have disappeared.
3.) Suicide implies some sort of decision to die, whatever the state of mind. Blundering into something, or getting killed by something stronger than you isn't the same as commiting suicide. The Romans getting trounced by the Huns wasn't suicide, the Ming dynasty being subjugated by the West, then torn apart from beneath wasn't suicide. It may have amounted to 'suicide' for these entities to get lazy and careless enough to fall apart, but it wasn't actually suicide.
4.) Suicide is to kill oneself- 'selbstmord', 'jisatsu'. As a nation is a multiple entity, everyone who made it up would have to be working to dissolve it, and that doesn't happen often.

Things just decline, that's it. Nothing ever can continue strengthening forever. Perhaps what makes us great will make us weak? and therefore leads us to be conquered. You could try to argue that greatness itself is a form of suicide... but that's stretching definitions and minds a wee bit too much... Hmm... I think I penned an Oasis lyric there... but on which line?

Answer 2

To the general population I think suicide is such a complex phenomena that trying to figure out what Gary was thinking in the hours before this tragic event we will never know. And I suspect that if it was explained to us, we probably still wouldn't understand it anyway. How can we understand if we haven't had suicidal tendencies in the first place. Why Gary, why why? Why now? After all this time of wonderful success you would want to end it all so dramatically. Was there a suicide note? Did his wife have any inkling of such a tragedy? I know through experience that women are unbelievably perceptive. You can't fool a loving wife. So was Gary that good and skilled to be able to fool everyone, including his family, that suicide was the only way out for peace and to be free at last. Gary was running on empty but for how long? As far as I'm concerned there is something not quite right about this whole tragedy. Nothing adds up. You can understand other very famous former footballers would consider ending it all because of their depression, drug and alcohol use, nobody would be surprised. What is the uncomfortably incredibly sad about of all of this, is that none of us saw this coming and apparently there were absolutely no clues. Gary was a great player for my team Leeds U and scored some crucial goals almost at will. He was a legend at Leeds and I hope they will place a memorial at Elland Road, so we never forget that Gary was just a fantastic guy. RIP Gary Speed.

Answer 3

Nothing lasts forever, in a global anarchic society of inter-governmentalism we can always end up under the influence of blackmailing dictators. Once China has half the world work force, you'll see how they'll be able to get awaya with anything. bye bye Taiwan.

I don't think great nations commit suicide, they just decline, if you mean Iraq, it is not iraq that will change the US might, that's nothing. If it's economic influence and military influence decreases than you might see changes, but not just because they lost this war (they have lost, they'll need to admit it soon). Vietnam was the same, they lost, but it did not change much; the cold war went through many different phases. But the monolithic state right now won't last, China will rise above, and that's when people will regret the 'clumsy' yank-domination.

Answer 4

I can recall having read somewhere that all systems fail; no ifs or buts, they will fall at some stage, 100% certain. I understood this not to be a result of the dictates of entropy, but the result of mankind being in the mix. It is the reason that religions and certain countries and organisations have strict and very rigid regulations, and, for that matter, why despots adopt Draconian methods of population control - all designed to ward off the inevitable decline and fall for as long as possible.
So there is an ongoing cycle; assuming that the planet will last long enough, the fallen will have a chance to rise (and fall) again. Rather sad to think that Homo sapiens is not wise enough to avoid catastrophe's embrace each and every time; perhaps it is Evolution's gift in order to clear the status quo in preparation for the dawn of a new, better(?) age.

Answer 5

A nation itself does not commit suicide.

A nation built on foundations which are weak, will eventually crumble and fragment.

A nation built on trust and cooperation, rather than war and conquest, has strong foundations.

The leaders of a nation decline as they age and their friends and supporters diminish. With this decline comes the fragmentation of a nation.

The "nation" itself will still exist in its separate parts. It therefore has not committed suicide, it has decided that one part cannot rule over another part. It has to decide to divide, go to war, or destroy itself. As no nation will destroy itself, it is either war or a fair division. As no wars are ever won in the long run, a fair division is the only answer.

Ultimately, what goes around comes around. A union split amicably, may eventually decide that a reunion is a good idea at some point in the future. A union split with acrimony, will never reunite.

Answer 6

Everything has a life cycle whether it is a human being, a tree, a star or an atomic explosion. Nations are no different. The begin, the grow and beome powerful, then they become weeker and eventually die. At the moment the USA is at it's peak, maybe slightly past it, and is starting on the downward spiral. The only way to survive is to become something new and start again.

The universe and life itself expects and needs change. Without change it becomes stagnent which is why everything has a lif cycle. The upside is that new things can grow in there place.

Answer 7

It has certainly been the case in the past with a great many civilizations rising and then subsequently falling. The Last Hours of Ancient Sunshine gives a great overview of mighty empires from the past such as the Romans and draws comparisons between them and our situation now. We are in a similar situation whereby we have to use the stored sunlight (i.e. fossil fuels) and cheap labour of other countries in order to support our own needs. Its a fascinating read and offers some solutions to the problem.

Answer 8

So called Great Nations become great by committing great atrocities over many years. This is not taught in their history. The British or as it should be known, English Empire is a good example. Those who have suffered because of this and are taught the truth in schools etc eventually bring down the so called great nations.

Answer 9

It's probably true ... sometimes you can say that about (so called) great people too ... look at the way Mr Blair committed suicide over the War...there goes that legacy

Power currupts ... and great nations like the US for instance, when they stop believing in the democracy they want to enforce on smaller/other nations... (without the approval of the UN) .. are well on their way ... with their absolute power ..to absolute corruption

Guantanamo bay for instance ...is un-democratic .. and you can't have it both ways .. so for instance; while calling on all other nations (i.e Nigeria, Zimbabwe) to hold transparent elections ... you cannot have a faulty election process yourself (even if it is less faulty)... and if not for the faults/irregularities ... Bush would not have won the first time.


DR Bad
Freedom writer ;-)

Answer 10

I don't know wether i would call it suicide but most nations end up imploding. History has shown that when environmental influences change that the nations keep behaving the way they always have. only before the final implosion do they realise that they need to change and by that time it is to late to stop the implosion.
There are numerous examples through out history.
The Greenland Norse
The Maya
The roman Empire to name a few