Atheists, please help me understand something?

Question

This is not an attack, just something I want to know. In fact, what angered me wasn't even something on this board.

Why is it that it seems that Atheists like to cling to the worst of Christianity instead of trying to see any good? You don't have to believe in it, I'm not asking you to change at all. Please, help me understand this.

Again, this isn't an attack. I do want to know. Thank you.

Nicole, that wasn't what I meant.

Curmudgeon, I meant, believing the worst in a person because they are Christian or that Christians do bad things all the time. I'm not excusing Christians from saying the same thing, I know we do. But I'm trying to understand you.

Again, what angered me wasn't from this site, it was from another. I got a lot of hatemail for being Christian. I'm sorry I didn't say SOME. I asked on here because 9 times out of 10 the people here seem more intelligent and rational and have good advice and insight.

Answer 1

Unfortunately--honest answer here--I've seen so lil of the good of it. Throughout history it seems mostly bad. And currently, it seems there are far more of the attacking Christians or worse the Christians that believe in quoting with their lips and never practicing with their lives--that it makes it very difficult to see the good in it.

I realize it's not really christianities problem--but it has grown too big. Once it became the religion of the majority of the US, people began to say they were christian simply b/c they at one time had stepped into a church. That ends up making christians look worse.

However the ones I have had more negative interaction with are the ones who are "passionate." They have a tendency to believe that stalking me, physically attacking me and my family, or forcing religion on me will make me see how wrong I am.

Many of my problems are with the organization of religion. Religion has to form exclusive clubs to stay in existance. It is a profit organization, and continues today to base itself on gaudy displays of wealth.

But on a completely seperate note, a lot of my problem with christianity is based on the bible itself. many ideas seemed weird to me. for example, jesus is the way to heaven--so what happened to all those people who have never heard of jesus? born before jesus? good people who don't believe in christ? Even as a small child, I couldn't figure out how the Jews would be in hell for not believing in Christ, but Jesus' grandfather was a Jew and he'd probably be in heaven. As an adult, the buddhist seemed much more to follow the teachings--so is it the teachings that matter or the belief structure that matters? Jesus talks about the problems in the church and how those in the church will not go to heaven, but we immediately formed churches. The fact that christianity seems to preach intolerance and the need to convert others, rather than accept them. But Jesus said to be tolerate and love others, regardless of their beliefs. Many parts just seem too contradictory--and doesn't seem like what it says Jesus would teach.

Jesus spent much of his time with sinners, teaching them to change their ways. Never did he seem to make them feel inferior, never did he say do not associate with them and never did he judge them to hell for refusing to bow to him. He yoked himself with unbelievers constantly. And even at the end when he was betrayed, he didn't judge Judas for his actions nor tell him his fate was to burn in hell. On the cross it is said he saved the man beside him. Religion has warped the teachings of Jesus.

Then on another note, the zealots that will go against science saying that the world is 3,000 years old and that all proof we find was planted by Satan. It is impossible to take these people seriously for no proof can be found that will help cure the delusions of their own mind. I don't have a problem with the ones that say science is wrong. Science has often been wrong. But the ones that don't know science--proclaiming that they know more than a scientist and who are against proof b/c of how they have interpreted the bible. I realize there is no proof either way as to if God exists or doesn't, but a logical Christian recognizes that the same logic must be applied to all religions equally. "I'm right b/c I'm me and you're wrong b/c I believe you are" is just not a logical argument. It makes it not worth having a conversation if the answer is just "because I said so." Sometimes it is like having an argument with a small child.

I hope you find this answer helps you understand. I realize you weren't attacking so I tried to make sure my response could not be taken as an attack either. Feel free to email me if you want to know more of the problems I have with christianity and why I don't feel I identify with it. I don't feel that I cling to the worst of Christianity, but instead rebell against what IS Christianity. Perhaps not what it was originally meant to be, but what it has evolved to be.

Answer 2

Honestly, what we do is try to temper a theist enthusiasm for the good of their religion with the harsh realities of their religion. We may be asked why we dont submit to a god or messiah that supposedly died for our sins, or is supposed to be so good to us, but we actually CHOSE against believing in such a god because we either don't buy it or actually did the research into the origins of the god or savior in question, and found them to be false.

Take this scenario for example. Your high school teacher taught you that Christopher Columbus was a brave, noble, and honorable man that discovered America, and thus, should be our hero. For years you're taught this, but you know that there were Native Americans that lived here when Columbus arrived. The history books even say that Chris and his merry crew celebrated the first Thanksgiving with those Native American. So you wonder, just how exactly is it that someone "discovers" some place where people already live? How did this go from being Native American land to European land? Then you do a little research and you find out that Captain Chris and his merry crew had to bring something back to the Queen that financed his trip, so he brought "Indians" back as slaves, and then decided to enslave the rest of them in the new world. All for profit. You learn that Chris and his merry crew wiped out entire tribes with smallpox infected blankets and took the land and everything in it as their own, and that led to other attrocities, all the way to the enslavement of Africans in order to fuel the economic boon that was taking place in the New World.

All this time, the history books kept that part from you. They gave you just enough information to make you think old Chris was a swell guy, but in reality, he was not someone you would bring home to meet the family, or even associate with. So when people tell you how great Chris is, you inform them of the bad things that Chris did so that they too are not fooled by the image presented in the history books.

Well, that's pretty much why Atheist cling to the worst of christianity. Most of us have studied it's origins and found it to be anything but what our pastors taught us. We know the truth, and we find it incredible that others still claim it to be the greatest thing ever, and tell us we're wrong for not thinking the same. We point out that not only are their misperceptions historically wrong and proven to be taken from other religions of the area, but that there is even evidence within the holy book itself that proves it should not be seen as the great thing people proclaim it is.

We ask how could "A" = good if "A" condones/performs/orders things that "U" think = evil if "I" were to do it. And just like you may "know" you are right, we actually have proof to back up our claims or correctness. So we don't back down, and whenever anyone tells us we should be greatful and convert to their religion, we tell them about their religion and its history.

Sorry this was so long, but I sincerly think you wanted to understand, so I had to give you a sincere answer.

Answer 3

Once with unfortunately obligatory the non-attack-statement is enough thanks... Though I tend to find the practice in general distasteful to some degree, I can definitely see the point in some of that clinging, depending on what you're defining as clinging. I mean if you're refering to attacking some unfortunate fundimentalist Christian beliefs, mostly it'd be an attempt to reach those specific people, which seems like a pretty worthy goal to me....

As for just drawing on the negative in general, I can also see the point in that, but I'd preffer not to do it for the most part, I can also see the point in that, as I see it, actually, I could draw a couple from that. For one, there is the goal of awareness, while it may seem that atheists focus too much on these things, it seems as if Christians shift attention to these things too quickly, and don't even think of them because they're in the habbit of avoiding the topic. A great many Christians tend not to like talking about the inquisition, but are rather quick to jump on some opressive Muslim cultures for being wrong, and as a sign that it is a horrible religion with no redeeming qualities. Making people aware of this seems like a decent enough point.

The other point, would simply be that the negative seems to far outweigh the good it generates, or that if it carries with it any negative aspects at all it might be preferable to do away with it entirely, because the alternative of holding no universal belief system carries with it no viewpoints which cause suffering at all. For it not balancing out, and the negative outweighing the good, an argument could definitely be made that while Christian organizations have done good in this world, the same people likely would've either A) done good things without a religious organization, B) were only doing good things out of fear or some other alterior motives to the kind acts, or C)Were somehow made better people through Christianity. I'd like to think the majority of them would fall into A, but I'd find it hard to believe that those that fit into B don't outweigh those who fall into C, which makes it seem like the actual good directly attributable to Christianity is pretty negligible. So, with this reasonably negligible good from this viewpoint, it isn't hard to overpower it with bad. Many atheists would suggest this gap to catch up with the good could be easily enough filled just by the negative aspects of feeding people dogma that doesn't corelate with reality before they're ready to parse through it, and wasting time, let alone organizing a system where priests, those which would otherwise be able to provide for themselves, willfully depend upon others for charity....

Edit: Hmm, your original question specified Christianity, but your further comments specify Christians.... It seems like there's a pretty big difference in that distinction, which did you mean?... o.O

Answer 4

For starters, your view is too narrow. Atheists are not the opposite of Christians: atheists don't believe in any religion, be it Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Satan Worshippers. (althought that last one sounds like fun)

Personally, I believe that the balance of religion is downright negative because the bad side of it is very tangible, while the perceived good side is mostly theoretical. Example: all major religions have been happy to call, or at least support wars in the name of God (don't think it's a muslim thing only, all other religions have done it many times) but no one really shows the other cheek when insulted, no matter how many times you repeat it like a robot in church.

Answer 5

Are you aware that a person will behave in the way that they believe their God behaves? It is akin to how a child will behave in ways that are reflective of their parents.
At least until they develop an identity for themself appart from that parent.

The problem with this God and people is most Christians are not trying to develop a sense of self appart from their God they are trying to be just like their God! Which means they will behave in a way that they feel is reflective of how their God behaves!

Given the fact I pointed out earlier that God killed nearly 33 Million people in the bible could give you an idea of the kind of horror we could easily see out of that religion!

That is why I am here!
I care about people to much to sit back and do nothing with crap like this in the mainstream consciousness! Someone must try to be the voice of reason! If it must be a Satanist then so be it!

Answer 6

It seems to me that the positive things about Christianity (focus on moral living, compassion for one's neighbor, charity, doing things for the good of the society) are not exclusively Christian traits.

However, the modern-day obsession with damnation and archaic sexual mores are negatives pretty much exclusively associated with the second-generation Abrahamic religions.

Christianity's negatives are unique or shared with Islam; its positives seem to be widespread among a variety of religious viewpoints.

To borrow an economics term, Christianity is not morally Pareto efficient.

Answer 7

Not an athiest, but a buddhist.

Here is what it is... most atheists believe that all religion is false, and there are no gods, and once you die you are done.

They have tried to have logical discussions with religious zealots, but how can you logically discuss God, when all the religious zealots fall back to the "because God wills it" argument. It is tautological, circular logic.

So they give up on that argument, and then point out the mass hypocracy of most religions, and "holy" peoples because it is a provable hypothesis.

and most atheists have the belief that most of the zealots are just bigots who want to exclude people, and prove they are "better" than others. (and looking at the history of most religious people... I agree.)

Answer 8

The bad Christians are the loud ones who are constantly telling everyone what is right, what is wrong, and trying to get our laws changed based on a book. If there weren't so many of these kinds of Christians they would be easier to ignore but they're literally everything and it's frustrating.

Answer 9

well, youre kind of generalizing right there, when you said that Atheists like to cling to the worst of Christianity.

Youre right that some people are low enough to stoop to that level..
but that doesnt mean that all of us Atheists only want to say bad things about Christianity.
(i actually respect the teachings) (some of them, not all)

Answer 10

I think you just did what your accusing us of. Not all atheists "cling" to the worst of christianity, I know that there are many good thigns that come out of the bible, but there are also bad things. The reason some of us push the bad things is, iin my opinion because they haven't realy realized why they are atheist, I don't need to attack religion to tell you why I'm atheist, but some of my fellow atheists do and they will stop when they realize wat I have realized.

Answer 11

What is the good part of Christianity per se, the good bits are not exclusive by any means and the bad bits seem to me to be very very bad indeed.

Seriously I'd like to know what parts of the Christian religion are better than being a caring atheist?