why is this such a popular argument?

Question

"There is proof God exists....just look around at everything"

....so because everything exists, it had to have come from a all knowing, all loving, all powerful spirit who has always existed?

doesn't that seem like an aweful lot of assumptions?

in a real world example, wouldn't that be like finding a dead dog on the road
then claiming that a 45 year old construction worker was talking to his boss Jeff on the phone and didn't have time to slam on his breaks in time. luckily the dog didn't feel any pain

as always, i should have put:

i'm not trying to start fights...
and i'm not trying to change anyones' beliefs

just looking for smart/rational converstaion

OH......

and since you can't prove to me that that isn't how the dog died, shouldn't we just accept that as fact?

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also, don't assume i'm an Evolution pusher

I haven't told any of you about my beliefs

just answer the question

Answer 1

It is like saying "I believe in God because I cannot believe that we created ourselves"

Which is the main reason that I believe in God.

We all have our reasons to, or not to believe in God, it does not make either of us idiots, or inferior to the other.

Peace!

Answer 2

It is a foolish arguement that will rage on til the end of time. The just look around argument is heavily flawed. Nothing has the 'Made by god' seal on it. so we have no proof there. And if the universe was created by a god, who said it was by the 'christian' god. As far as anyone can tell, it could have been made by the sumerian gods. If a god exists, why can't there be more than one? Nobody can answer that question either. So then lets apply some book logic to the question. It is written in the bible that God created everything in 7 days. The bible is a book, a collection of words. Christianity uses circular logic to prove the bible. The bible says so thus , so it be. Lets take Tolkien's the silmarillion, which has a creation myth also in it. It is a book which is a collection of words, but does it make it true? No, just like the bible it is just a book. And then lets get out the Star Wars trilogies, They say that in a galaxy far far away a long time ago this story happened. Well thanks to the hubble telescope we now see galaxies that are far far away and there light is just reaching us. So does that mean that Star Wars is a true story? Of course not.
Just seeing something is not proof that there is this mystical story around it. To say that by just looking around is proof of god, is saying walk into a cemetary and see all the people that god has killed, or walking in a desert and see the land that god neglected. To apply a rule to prove something positive only is wrong. You must apply the positive and negative in all rules.
I know that some will lookdown upon my answer, that is fine, I am a pagan walking in the path of the druids.

Answer 3

Brown, you wouldn't happen to be a construction worker would you? =)

Because it is a MATERIAL something that exists it had to come from somewhere. Where? What possible beginning could all these things have? This is a realm that is governed by time, the fourth dimension. Everything had to have a beginning. Everything will have an end.

Given that, what could its beginning be? There couldn't be a nothing out there, governed by the same realm, that blew up and became something, especially a something so organized that it could sustain, leave alone start, life as intricate and complex as it is. That would require more faith than I could muster. The only plausible explanation is that of an intelligent design from a realm that governs this realm and time, an infinite being by definition capable of creating something from His own essence, needing no materials, since none exist and, so for practical pruposes, speaking everything into existance according to HIs plan... from our perspective.

The God we worship is an infinite being. He had no begining and has no end. The fact that we are finite beings subject to the physical laws of this realm, including time, makes it just about impossible to understand properly enough to prove that which we could have no experience in. All reasoning mentioned has been laid down before us for thousands of years and Science has not only NOT been able to refute them but in most ways actually backed them up. The second law of thermodynamics alone strikes down both the Big Bang and evolution as possibilities.

The apostle Paul wrote,"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." Through Jesus' sacrifice, when we do get to our perfected bodies, we will have the capacity to take in all those wonders and understand the ways of God. But for now God has given us enough to steer us in the right direction but keep a bit of faith as an element in our lives.

Answer 4

To consider your illustration a little differently, If you saw a live dog walking down the street, would it be reasonable to assume that it had parents? You could not tell all of the parents' specifics from looking at the offspring but it would be considered reasonable to assume parents existed. To apply this illustration on a larger scale, scientists have long recognized the principles of cause and effect. An effect must have an equal or greater cause. When we consider the universe (or, if you prefer, the big bang) we are less than responsible if we do not ask what cause might be behind it. That cause must be bigger than the effect. Additionally, we see persons in the effect so it is reasonable to postulate a personal cause. A person who is greater than the universe could only be described as God. This reasoning does not prove Christianity but it does provide an incentive for one to seek for this cause for the effect we see. I notice that the Christian bashers here have no real answer to this. Their only response is the ad hominem of name calling. Such ad hominems are an indication that one has no logic to resort to. Thus, the nasty name calling which fails to reason is further evidence of the validity of the reasoning that effects must have a cause. It is common for people to ask what caused God and this is a good question. Unless we postulate God we end up with infinite regress. Who caused the God who caused the God...ad infinitum. If one does not find that persuasive then the bottom line is that since we do not know who or what caused God that is irrelevant to us. Our reasonable response to the universe is to seek an answer to the cause of what we do know exists.

Answer 5

i kinda agree with you on that if someone says that the proof of having a god is by looking around and seeing things then that doesn't proof the existence of god. look at 3rd world countries all the poverty and destruction is caused by man not by a divine being. so if you look at them for an example of God existing than the the argument you put forward just falls to pieces.

Answer 6

I define "God" as the natural universe, and not a supernatural being. You have to define what you mean by "God" in order to get an accurate answer here. In my case, your argument falls apart because of the way I define God, but you do have a point. Someone who is an expert in logic should show the fallacy of the argument you are pointing out - not the fallacy of YOUR argument - the fallacy of the argument you are presenting here.

Answer 7

Belief in what is around you (all of 'creation') lends, logically, to existence of a creator. Saying you believe something exists but don't believe in the creator of 'something' is a contradiction. This is kinda like me asking you what kind of vehicle you drive, you answer for example, a truck. I then say that I don't believe in truck makers. You then scratch your head and look at your truck, which still exists despite my disbelief in anything or anyone that makes trucks.

Believe doesn't make existence. I am not saying that this makes everything everyone says about the creator true, nobody knows His true nature, we cannot. People just try to do the best they can for their own beliefs. What you choose to believe is, and always should be, yours and yours alone.

Answer 8

Unfortunately, people who use this argument are neither smart nor rational, so your having asked this question is akin to asking a kindergartener why the definate integral of f(x)=1 from 0 to 1 is 1.

Answer 9

Because it's the only argument they have & that's what they actually believe so they feel you should believe it too.

My favorite argument is that the universe can't exist on it's own, everything has to have a creator & the universe's creator is god. Ok, so... going with your logic.... Who created god? god doesn't need a creator! Ummm, but you just said EVERYTHING has to have a creator.... So who created god? It is illogical to believe that god would need a creator....... Apparently logic is not your strong suit.

They're chock full of contradictions, assumptions, and hypocrisy!

Answer 10

Science is proven with facts.
Religion is driven by faith, you can't prove nor disprove it, it is believing in what you can't prove.

I happen to agree with you, but it;'s pointless to debate/argue/converse with someone from either field, as they both believe in their "source"