Question For Mormon AKA LDS Religion...Or anyone who may be helpfull..?

Question

Out of curiousity,- its taught in the mormon (LDS) religion that god has already planned our life for us ahead of time, and already knows how our life will be played out or lived;

My Question is-
1.) if he has already planned our life out and knows how we are going to live our life what is the point of even living our life if its "pre-destined."
2.) What is the point of testing us if he already knows we are going to do what he planned for us to do...why not just take us straight to judgement day and skip earth on life?
3.) If consumption of caffeine, coffee, etc. is discouraged and a word of wisdom issue in the church.. Why do mormons eat chocolate? it HAS caffeine in it, but unlike soda w/caffeine it is acceptable.
4.)most random of all- if god created the earth, everything on it why is marijuana considered as harmfull when it is a plant or medicine in some cases... Why does it damage "our bodys that should be treated as a temple pure and clean when can be used for medical use"

lol, I never heard of mormons buying coke.. but thanks for the response, if someone can point me to an article or somethin where mormons baught coke out I would like to read that :D

Mormons believe in Christ...therefore doesnt that make them a type of Christian though??

Answer 1

1 - This isn't just a question of Mormon theology, but one of Christian thought in general. If God is omniscient (and I know of no Christian sect that claims He's not), then presumably there can be no free-will. I would refer you to the Consolatio Philosophiae of Boethius for help with this question. He argues that time is different for God - that whereas for humans there is a past, present, and future, for God there is only present, an unbounded now. It's not so much that God "forsees" someone doing something as he "sees" them doing it. And so if God has no knowledge of the future (since nothing like the future exists for God), things aren't pre-destined.

2 - Well, for this question, there's a good answer - even if there were no free will (and I don't think that's the case), the fact that God knows what you're capable of is in a sense irrelevant - the important thing is that you know and experience it. And so the test must be carried out.

3 - This question actually does concern only Mormons. I would argue that the word of wisdom doesn't say not to drink caffeine, but "hot drinks". Take that as you may. Let me point out, though, that a God who forbids chocolate is in all likelihood going to be a very, very lonely deity.

4 - Well, lots of things are both harmful and helpful, depending on how they're taken, and not just marijuana. I wouldn't advise anyone to play around with TNT, but a nice little bit of nitro-glycerin could save your life if you're havingheart problems instead of blowing you to smithereens. Strong antibiotics don't just kill bad germs - they kill all germs (even helpful ones). In that sense they're bad for you too, but good if taken in the right way (i.e. prescribed by a medical professional). A lot of medicinal techniques are harmful in one way and helpful for another. Marijuanas another. I would argue (though I don't think you'll find all that many Mormons who support even medicinal marijuana) that if you really need to light up a joint to kill pain, THC is the least of your worries (physically speaking).

Anyway, this is all from a former-mormon-turned-agnostic, but I do try to keep up on theology. Hope it answers some of your questions.

Also - Mormons do not own Coca-cola. It's an urban legend. Look it up on snopes.com. Anyway, Coke is a publicly traded company - technically, nobody "owns" it. It's owned by the shareholders (some of which I'm sure are Mormons).

Further note - I would argue that the only things one would have to accept in order to be Christians are the Resurrection and the doctrine of the Redemption. Just a layman's notion, but that's the way it seems to me. And Mormons believe in both of these things. And when compared to the doctrines of real theologians like Augustine and Aquinas, 95% of all modern Christian theology is junk. So there (sticks tongue out at the answerer above).

Hey Zero - One of the Catholic Nazis, eh? Well, I don't recall ever quoting the great medieval theologians once in my answer (apart from using a concept found in Boethius). I just refer to them as great religious thinkers. And by the way, that doesn't mean that I think they were 100% right - it means I think they were brilliant minds who came at difficult problems with both faith and logic. On a slight side note, I was interested in becoming catholic after I turned away from Mormonism until I met guys like you. Better, I thought, to be an ex-Mormon welcomed by a loving Mormon family than a bitter little turd who hates their guts in return for their decency.

Answer 2

1. The point of this life is to be tested, to gain a mortal body and have mortal experiences.
2. He didn't "plan" anything, he doesn't make our choices for us. He knew that in giving us our agency he would lose some of his children to unrighteousness, but he also knew there was no other way for us, his children, to become like him. This life is one of the steps necessary for exaltation. He still wanted us to gain a body and have these experiences.
3. Coffee, Tea, Alcohol and Tobacco are the main things in the Word of Wisdom. Because we also believe in modern revelation, we listen to the prophet's and try to heed their counsel. Anything addictive is discouraged. Anything used NOT in moderation is discouraged. My husband has a coke or two every day. I rarely ever drink caffeine, mostly because i don't like the taste. If the prophet does ever say 'caffeine' is against the word of wisdom, then we will make the necessary change, until then I guess as long as we aren't addicted to it, we are OK.
4. Well, he did create the earth and everythin in/on it. MAN is the one who decided that pot be used the way it is, not God. We have our own choices...maybe it's a test!

As a reminder, all things are welcome to be asked of the Lord, if I don't understand something or want to know "why" something is a certain way, I ask. If it is his will that I know that answer, I will receive an answer.

Answer 3

1) It's not so much "planned out" as it is that He knows what we will do. This is just my personal theory, but I think that our life is like a tree... there are many possible ways for us to branch out, depending on our choices. Just like if you flip a coin 3 times, there are 8 possible combined outcomes, if you make different choices, there are x number of different outcomes in our life... I think that God knows what will happen to us if we make certain choices, and then it is up to us to make our decisions based on what we think is the best thing for us to do.

2. See my previous answer... we have our choices. What would be the point of Satan coming to tempt us if what we were doing had already been determined? That would take away many people's excuses for inappropriate behavior, when they say "The devil made me do it". (not true, btw, but that's another question) we make our choices, and we are tested to see if we will succumb to Satan. We must choose the right.

3. Caffeine is not specifically discouraged... I know lots of good Mormons who drink caffeine. While IMO large amounts of caffeine (which chocolate doesn't have a lot) is bad for you, caffeine isn't against the Word of Wisdom. Rather, coffee, tea, etc are warned against because of dangerous addictive chemicals (yes, caffeine is one, but not the only problem) in them.

4. Not sure I understand your question, but first of all the biggest problem with marijuana is that people smoke it. Even if a doctor were to recommend the use of marijuana (which I've never heard of, by the way), he would certainly not say to smoke it. In smoking it, there are lots of byproducts (i.e. smoke) that can be harmful to you, even more so than the marijuana. Also, God created everything on the Earth, but there are not only good things... if everything on Earth were good, there would be no temptation, no choices, and we would be forced to be perfect. In which case nothing would really exist anyway (see 2 Nephi 2:13). Marijuana can be used medically, but not as well as other things, so doctors do not proscribe marijuana. Slightly random compared to your main topic, but a good question nonetheless.

Answer 4

1.) if he has already planned our life out and knows how we are going to live our life what is the point of even living our life if its "pre-destined."

Mormons don't believe in pre-destination, they believe in Fore-ordination. They believe that we all have the right to choose. They also believe that before we came to earth, we were given a list of things God expected us to do. Weather we choose to do them or not is another question.

2.) What is the point of testing us if he already knows we are going to do what he planned for us to do...why not just take us straight to judgement day and skip earth on life?

Mormons dont believe that God already has our lives planned out for us. He does have things he thinks we can accomplish, and expects us to do... i.e our "mission" in life.

3.) If consumption of caffeine, coffee, etc. is discouraged and a word of wisdom issue in the church.. Why do mormons eat chocolate? it HAS caffeine in it, but unlike soda w/caffeine it is acceptable.

Consumption of caffeine is not a part of the LDS "Word of Wisdom." It was recommended in the mid-1980's that caffeine be avoided. LDS members who consume caffeine are still considered members in full standing. This rule about caffeine has never been adopted into official doctrine, and adherence to it varies by region, state, and country.

4.)most random of all- if god created the earth, everything on it why is marijuana considered as harmfull when it is a plant or medicine in some cases... Why does it damage "our bodys that should be treated as a temple pure and clean when can be used for medical use."

A source on your quote as it pertains specifically to marijuana would be helpful here. Once again Marijuana is not specifically mentioned by name in the LDS "Word of Wisdom." The current definition in the "Word of Wisdom" is defined on the church website as "Illegal Drugs." I assume if a drug is legally consumed, then it is not against the rules. The LDS church teaches recognition of those things that lead to drug use, and elimination of them as a means of fighting them.

Seriously, though... the final question... Marijuana is wrong. It screws your mind up, dude. Just because God made something does mean he intends for you to eat, consume, or smoke it. Some common sense is in order.

Answer 5

Wow, you have a lot of questions! That's great! I personally don't believe in religion, I believe religion is man-made, not the true word of God, so all of these questions are null and void in my mind. But I will try to put that aside for a moment and find some reasoning for you.

1. Even if your life is pre-destined, you still get to live it, right?
2. The point of testing (even though he already knows the outcome) could be seen as a test more for you - to strengthen and sharpen you, like a test in school - rather than a test for his own knowledge, such as an experiement. So I would think of this more as a test for your purpose, not for his.
3. It could be that people are not strictly following the no caffine rule by having chocolate because they're either not aware that chocolate contains caffine (so a matter of ignorance) or that they're being more lacks on this rule because unlike coffee, chocolate doesn't supress the appetite and people don't consume it in the same way that they consume coffee - cup after cup. So in this way, people would be finding the reason behind the rule and then applying their own logic and judgement to it. Another reason could be that people don't tend to take to heart everything that is in there religion's guide books, which can at times be a very good thing. For instance, the bible states that if your wife cheats on you or if you find out she's not a virgin when you marry her, you should take her to her fathers house and stone her to death on her doorstep. Christians obviously don't do this - at least not these days. The religious books are guide books and should not be taken at face value for everything they teach. And unfortunately, they fail to evolve with the times.
4. Marijuana can be used as a medicinal drug (good) or a recreational drug (which can be bad). People using this as a recreational drug can have negative effects, such as becoming to lazy and/or lathargic.

Thank you for asking such valid questions, it's good to see people using their brains on here! The answers above are not concrete, more of me playing devil's advocate. You can justify just about anything with the right logical spin. I don't really believe in these answers because I don't believe in the religion, but if you do believe in these teachings and just want some value placed on the reasoning, this is my best attempt.

Have a great night, and thank you for thinking!

Answer 6

1.) We believe in pre-ordination not pre-destination.

2.) Many reasons. Without a mortal experience we could not grow. Without opposition there is now growth. Heavenly Father already knows are hearts, but we need to know for ourselves... Heavenly Father knows there is no better teacher than experience.

3.) It's not only the caffeine, it's the chemicals etc also. The whole point is to treat our bodies with the most respect we can.

4.) you kind-of answered it yourself... that's just it, it damages our bodies and decreases our control of our actions. It's also very addictive. One of the main purposes of the church is to bring to light all the ways we can be free from the ways, sins and woes of the world. If we're addicted to something then we are less free, because it controls us.

Have a great day! :)

Answer 7

1) Mormons believe in foreordination, not predestination. This means that each of us were ordained to do certain things and to receive the blessing attached to those things. However, we still have the agency to choose whether or not we actually fulfill our calling/ordination. It is true that God knows each of us intimately and therefore knows what we will and won't do, but that does not mean we aren't free.

2) It's not so much as testing us, but allowing us to choose. There was a reason the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was placed in the Garden and Satan allowed to tempt us, because without opposition and without failure we could not know happiness or sorrow, joy or pain. We must experience things in order to grow and obtain actual knowledge and understanding. To not allow us to choose and act according to our desires would be exactly what Satan wanted.

3) Caffein is not forbidden in the Church, only coffee and tea. Some members take the verses in the Word of Wisdom to mean caffein, but that is not the case. Those that choose to refrain from caffein do so because they believe it is an addictive substance (proven) and therefore want to stay away from it. It is sort of like in Buddhism, which teaches in order to overcome sorrow we must overcome attachment (very simplified I know). I will admit, I have a highly caffeinated energy drink almost daily...sad.

4) I think this relates to my answer in "3", that it can be addictive and we therefore steer clear of it to prevent attachment (overcome the self/physical). There may be those in the Mormon faith that don't have a problem with Marijuana for medicinal purposes and think it should be legalized for those purposes (myself being one of them), but Mormons also believe that if something is against the law they will not do it (they honor the laws of the land).

I hope I answered your questions adequately. Good luck.

Answer 8

I've noticed that a lot of mormon responses indicate the "finiteness" of God - that is, he can be surprised by our actions: a drug user can suddenly turn clean and sober and God says, "Gee, I didn't see that coming.."

The mormon god therefore must have limits, and therefore cannot be oniscient or omnipotent. Yet they maintain he still is, but the logic of this reasoning fails me. That's maybe why they believe in recent prophecy, but that's not the point.

Your question has been debated long before there was an Abraham, or any of the other fictional characters found in the bible or elsewhere. It takes it's place in philosophy along the lines of "If god can do anything, can he make a rock he cannot lift?"

So. if god already knows what's in store for his creation, what's the point of trying to maintain morality or try to change how you feel about the things spritual? This argument has never been resolved, and probably never will be. Early christian monks grappled with this idea, some were either excommunicated or executed.

So, if life is a test, we have all failed; we will not reach the kingdom of god. Fortunately, it does not exist.

Caffiene in drinks are bad, except hot chocolate. This is more fable that doctrine, but some cling to that notion as uttered from a General Conference.

Jews and muslims consider pork and certain seafood as unclean and certain types of fish do contain poisons . Most vaccines come from plant or animal sources. So do a lot of poisons. Some vaccines or medicines come from poisons. It's all part of this terrific diversity of life after billions of years of development.

The best advice is to not worry about what you think god thinks. He either doesn't know, or already knows and your fate is sealed - it's not worth wasting too much time on this. Live your life as best you can, act civilized and read more philosophy.

Answer 9

You've totally misunderstood our beliefs. God does NOT have our lives all planned out. He has a plan, and we have the choice to follow that plan, or not. He doesn't know howwe are going to do before we do it.

The Word of Wisdom (sec. 89 of the Doctrine & Covenants) says no hot drinks. Later prophets detemined this to mean coffee and tea. NO REASON is given for this. It is merely speculation that it is the caffeine that is the offensive substance.

There are lots of plants that are useful, but also abused in sme cases. But, God told Adam and Eve that He would curse the earth or something like that. God allows temptations, to see how we will act.

Answer 10

This is also a Biblical/Christian doctrine-to an extent. I'm Christian-here's what the Bible teaches:

1. the Bible very clearly teaches predestination. We live despite this because we are an overflowing of God's love and glory (woo hoo!)
2. Would you REALLY want God to skip your life and send you to judgement? would that be fair if you had never actually done any of the stuff that God knew you would do...would it be fair to send you to hell because God knew you would reject him-even if you never had the opportunity?
3. i believe the mormon doctrine of caffiene was changed when they bought Coke. They can now drink soda and have caffiene, just not coffee and tea. No LDS member has ever been able to give me logical reason for this. But it is NOT in the Bible.
4. And that's also a mormon doctrine, not a Biblical one. The only problem i believe God has with marijuana is it being used illegaly.

Let scripture interpret scripture. Good luck!