What does logic matter if you don't have the right premise?

Question

The premise is humility, which is lacking in religious people and atheists. God wants your heart, not lip service.

Let me spell it out:

Truth is infinite.
Man is finite.

Pride tells man that he can wholly know the truth, therefore pride is a lie. It's the root of all lies.

Humility tells man that he cannot wholly know the truth, but only experience it. Truth is humility. Without humility, everything you do is in vain.

Isaiah and Barbara, I completely agree, but you can't have a relationship with Jesus until you experience humility first, that is confessing that you are a sinner in need of forgiveness.

okay Paul, feel better? My humiation is your exaltation.

okay Paul, feel better? My humiliation is your exaltation.

jtrusnik, thanks that was cool. I was waiting for that and you went above and beyond.

A finite thing cannot wholly comprehend an infinite thing.

There's nothing illogical about that. A limited thing cannot contain an unlimited thing.

Answer 1

I agree with a lot of what your saying...however truth can be obtained through a relationship with Jesus.

"As he spake these words, many believed on him. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:30-32)

Answer 2

A - Your question is formulated incorrectly. Let me fix it for you:

"What does validity matter if you don't have the right premise?"

B - Your argument, if I understand it:

1 - Truth is infinite
2 - Man is finite
3 - A finite being can only understand a finite thing (unstated)
4 (subconclusion) - Therefore, a Man cannot understand Truth.
5 - A person who cannot understand something must exhibit humility (unstated)
Conclusion - Therefore, anything which is a Man must exhibit humility

Premise 1 is unjustified. The more I think about it, the more I could see it argued either way. Premise 2 is flawed; just because something is limited in some way doesn't mean it's limited in a way pertinent to the question at hand. It needs more fleshing out. Otherwise, Premise 3 doesn't follow. And if Premise 3 doesn't follow, Premise 4 doesn't follow.

Premise 5 is unjustified. There's no reason for humility, per se. You're trying to derive an "ought" from an "is." Most philosophers have believed this to be impossible for a couple of centuries. Some few have stated that it is possible, under certain conditions, but you've made a statement about humility, not an argument. I could easily replace humility with (to give one example) curiosity.

This also means that the conclusion is not justified. Because the premises do not force the conclusion, your argument is not valid.

C - You slipped in another argument.

1 - Pride means that a man cannot know the truth.
2 - A lie is holding a falsehood.
3 - If a man has pride, he is holding a falsehood.
4 - Therefore, a man with pride is also being that which lies.
5 - Therefore, pride is the root of all lies.

That's really awkward wording, but I don't see the connection. Nor are you really defining pride by any common definition. Nor is premise 5 ever justified. You just kinda dropped the sentence in there, like it was obvious. It isn't.

D - Another argument

1 - Truth is humility
2 - Without humility, everything you do is in vain.
Conclusion - Therefore, without truth, everything you do is in vain.

I doubt the first premise. I doubt the second premise. The conclusion, therefore, is problematic. The argument meets the criteria for validity. It does not meet the criteria for soundness.

Overall thoughts:

You need to work more on justifying your premises.

Answer 3

Imagination is more important than knowledge.
( On Science. ) Albert Einstein

"When I am judging a theory, I ask myself whether, if I were God, I would have arranged the world in such a way."
Albert Einstein


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein



Einstein a very knowledge driven person.

Answer 4

Well said... But i don't think many people will understand this, unless they took some type of philosophy courses... Let me rephrase this to "simplify" for those who did not study philosophy...

STOP BEING SUCH AN IDIOT.... DON'T QUESTION THINGS IF YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW TO START>>>

Answer 5

God also states in His Word that human wisdom is folly compared to His Wisdom........God is Infinite & man is finite
><> In Christ <><

Answer 6

Aha... "right" according to whom? If the concept of an omnipotent creator being teaches you knowledge, wisdom, altruism and compassion then you work with what works for YOU. Buddhism (essentially atheist) works better for ME.

_()_

Answer 7

The atheists here certainly show ample humility.

Your "let me spell it out" certainly undermines your point.