Jehovah's Witnesses, please explain this?

Question

Part 1: Rev. 1:12-18 within your NWT describes John seeing One like the Son of Man. In part, it reads: 17 And when I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet. And he laid his right hand upon me and said: “Do not be fearful. ****I am the First and the Last****, 18 and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Ha´des."

It seems obvious this is Jesus speaking. Agree or disagree?

Part 2: Isaiah 44:6 within your NWT reads:

6 “This is what JEHOVAH has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God."

So you can see that Jesus called Himself "the first and the last," despite the fact that Jehovah also called Himself "the first and the last."

It's not possible to have TWO firsts and TWO lasts, is it? So when comparing these passages, why do you deny Jesus ever called Himself God?

It would be appreciated if answerers would stick to the cited passages and not raise extraneous arguments. Please explain why you think THESE passages, when compared together, don't prove Jesus is God.

Thomas, it seems clear you don't know what a "troll" is. A troll is a person who asks unfounded pseudo-questions just to taunt others. I, on the other hand, am a R&S regular with a 23% "Best Answer" rating. I am quite learned in the Bible and have quoted to you from your own NWT. The fact that you cannot answer the question, but resort to insults is sad, yet telling...

THA, the context about this passage is NOT about Jesus' death. The context is that One like the Son of Man, who has died yet is risen, calls Himself "the first and the last." The Isaiah 44 passage tells us Jehovah considers Himself to be "the first and the last." Look at the passages again and think independently of what the WBTS has taught you to think -- think for yourself, it could save your life.

Sho-Nuff, thank you for answering. You know enough about the Bible to tell us which Man died and rose again -- Jesus, right? So if Jesus calls Himself the first and the last, AND Jehovah ALSO calls Himself this title, does it seem logical to conclude that Jesus called Himself God, by virtue of the use of this title?

Answer 1

You must realize that people involved with Jehovah's Witness are fooling around with a cult.
JW was started as an alternative "religion" by Charles Russell, a failed opportunist who was looking to make money.
Today you can peg the followers of Russell by noticing their fanatical devotion to the "Watchtower Society", the huge organ which prints and distributes literature to further their erroneous teachings.
They even invented their own "bible" called the "New World Translation", which is not a translation but a bastard rendition of the true Bible with many words changed to fit the JW cultic beliefs.
In JW there is no heaven or hell. Everything happens here, and you have to work like the devil to earn a privileged place among the mystical "144,000" worthy people who will supposedly be accepted by God into the new world.
This belief system is ideal to keep people enslaved to a giant corporation bent on grabbing as much money as possible.
Many people have finally awakened to this foolishness after years of subjection to higher worthies and the Watchtower Society.
While involved with this cult, though, they are blind to the truth of Scripture, and no amount of reasoning will shake them.
Like the Prodigal, they have to "come to the end of themselves" before they renounce the lie and get out of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Answer 2

It is primary that each person is aware that "new gentle" which a word that's most effective used a only a few occasions, isn't approximately including to the scriptures. It signifies that we discover that anything that we could had been doing that was once unscriptural, we're not doing. There was once a time once we celebrated vacations that had a pagan foundation. We do not do this any longer. There was once a time once we known as people who take the lead within the congregation by way of a name, like Pastor. We do not do this anymore, after considering and meditating approximately scriptures that say that we cannot. We as soon as concept that 1914 was once going to deliver the tip of this approach of matters. We do not anymore., even though it's nonetheless transparent that this can be a scripturally marked 12 months. Most of the alterations aren't most important. We consider that the Bible is the Word of God, and that Jesus Christ is the one begotten first born son of Jehovah. We by no means believed that any publication that we or any one else has written past the scriptures is direct revelation from God, no longer any longer. If we determine anything, it's to deliver us in the direction of the earliest so much correct manuscripts of the Bible - NEVER considering that a few human in our day stated that God instructed him that this or that's real. So while humans say that we do, they don't seem to be telling the reality. It has been this manner in our literature and for the period of the many years that I had been committed to Jehovah

Answer 3

Suzanne, I am also the first and the last, but I claim to be neither Jehovah nor Jesus. I am my parents firstborn child; also I am their last child, so I can say I am the first and the last.

It is clear that Jesus here (Revelation) is the first one to be directly resurrected from the dead by Jehovah, as well as the last one, to live forever. All future resurrections are done by Jesus. One can tell that this passage is about Jesus' death and resurrection because the last part of 17 & the first part of 18 reads as follows:
"And he laid his right hand upon me and said: “Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, 18 and the living one; and ►►►I became dead, but, look! I am living forever◄◄◄ and ever..."

The passage at Isaiah 44:6 reads in its entirety: "“This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and ►►►besides me there is no God◄◄◄."

Jehovah is the first & last only true Almighty God.

The two are not one. As my illustration above shows, there can be many who are called truthfully "the first and the last."

P.S. I looked at several of Thomas' answers and saw nothing to indicate he uses the NWT.

Answer 4

1. Yes it is about Jesus.

Jesus is the first and last to be directly created by his father. (Ps 2:7 1Jo 5:1 Hbr 1:5 Col 1:15)

Jesus is the first and last to be resurrected directly by his father. (Ecc 9:5 Acts 2:32; 10:40)


Jhn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.


2. Jehovah is the first and last "God" as you pointed out in Isaiah 44:6.

John 1:1 - the word "was" God.

1 Cr. 15:24 - Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.


Unlike Jesus, Jehovah has always been.

Psalm 90:2 “Before the mountains were created, before you made the earth and the world, you are God, without beginning or end.”

Answer 5

My vote is that in this area concerning the JWs you are a troll.

I have read your answers that are recent and some of them are pretty good.

But

I have a glass of water and I have a beaker of poison. How much of that poison am I going to add to the glass of water before I will not drink it. one drop two drops or ten?

There is just enough distortion your posts here and there to be leavened-- aye?

Now you think you are going to make more trouble between trinitarians and JWs that are non Trinitarians.

The JWs have systematically destroyed the pagan doctrine of the triune God. But you continue re assert things that have been dealt with on these boards.

Jesus was the first born of creation. (Hence he is called the first Adam)

Jesus is the only member of Judah/Levi whose pedigree is on file.

His pedigree is listed in the Gospels; both Mary his mother and Joseph his earthly father are given.

No other record of pedigree exists. His has an untainted pedigree.

His lineage can be traced to "the very Adam", the very man through which the savior would come and from which Judah and the other twelve tribes came.

Jesus was the last Adam, the last pure pedigree, as is stated in the new testament.

Last Adam and the First Adam, First Created and the only begotten son.

NWT
6 “This is what JEHOVAH has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God."

Take great care in the translation of this here. This verse is a preview of what would be said in Revelations or the Unveiling of Christ.
Who is the Redeemer/Repuchaser?
Who is the King of Israel?
And perhaps you may see that Jehovah, in this verse, is speaking for both his self and the answer to the above Questions.

This verse is simply a validation that The Book of the uncovering of Christ Jesus is truth!

Your question begins well and ends with a mess, babbling mess.

Jesus is of God - Jesus is from God - Jesus is one with God.
Does this make Jesus God?

Think real hard.

You are of your mother.
You have the very same purpose and thought as your mother.
You are close to your mother and one in a sense.

Are you your mother?

A man and a woman marry and become one flesh.
Are they one literally or are they one yet two?

By calling the JWs a cult you are attempting to delegitimize them and the beliefs they hold. You are in error in this.

They earnestly seek the truth of God. Do you?

Answer 6

In Isaiah 44:6,Jehovah rightly describes his own position as the one and only Almighty God,saying:"I am the first and the last and besides me there is no God".
When Jesus presents himself by the title "the First and the Last" he is not claiming equality with Jehovah,the Grand Creator.He is using a title properly bestowed on him by God.In Isaiah Jehovah was making a statement about his unique position as the true God.He is God external,and besides him there is indeed no God.(1Tim.1:17).
In Revelation,Jesus is talking about his bestowed title,calling attention to his unique resurrection.Jesus was indeed 'the First" human to be resurrected to immortal spirit life(Col.1:18).Moreover,he is "the Last"to be so resurrected by Jehovah God personally.For all others of humanity,Jesus himself is "the resurrection and the life"(John11:25).In harmony with this,he says to John:"I became dead,but look! I am living forever and ever.And I have the keys of death and of Hades(Rev.1:18b).Jehovah has given him the authority to resurrect the dead.That is why Jesus can say he has the keys to unlock the gates for those bound by death and Hades(gravedom).
As you can see there is always an explanation for what the Bible says.But it is up to each of us to make an earnest heartfelt search for an accurate understanding.
There is not one scripture that is misinterpreted to claim Christ is God that cannot be explained.

Answer 7

In Rev when Jesus was speaking, the context was about his being the first one resurrected by God to immortal heavenly life and the last one resurrected by Jehovah God.

The context of Isaiah 44 is Jehovah vs gods of the nations.

Read the context.

Jesus can not be Jehovah God and provide salvation. The concept of Jesus' being Jehovah denies salvation.

Answer 8

No. You're not a troll. I think what you ask is a very fair question. I haven't had enough coffee this morning but let me see if I can answer you briefly.

In Rev. 1:17 Jesus is referring to himself as the first and the last because he is such, in this way. He was the first to die as a perfect human on earth, faithful to his father, and the first to be resurrected to heavenly life afterward. He is the last because he would be the last such resurrection performed directly by his father Jehovah. In Isaiah 44:6, Jehovah is referring to his own Godship.

These are two completely different situations.

Thank you for your question. Enjoy your day. :)

Answer 9

Is it possible to have two 'first and lasts'?

Yes!
The question you need to ask is: first and last of what?

In the context, Jesus is first and last in respect to the resurrection.

First to be raised to spirit life in heaven by God and last to be resurrected by the Father alone.

All ressurected after Jesus are resurrected by means of Jesus, this is why Jesus has been given the keys of death and Hades.

As recorded in John chapter 5 Jesus said:

“Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is. 28 Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. 30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.

regards
Ousboui

Answer 10

There are many descriptions that are not exclusively "owned" by either Jehovah God or by Jesus Christ. Clearly, "first and last" is one such description.

It is simply ignorant to assert that "first" and "last" can only refer to singular entities. Good bible students, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, are well aware of this fact.

(Matthew 20:16) In this way the last ones will be first, and the first ones last


Interestingly, Isaiah plainly indicates that Jehovah is alongside others who are also the "last ones".

(Isaiah 41:4) I, Jehovah, the First One; and with the last ones I am the same.


Of course, Jehovah's Witnesses love and respect and honor Christ. However, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Scriptures quite plainly demonstrate that Jesus and the Almighty are separate distinct persons, and the Almighty created Jesus as His firstborn son.

(Colossians 1:15) the firstborn of all creation

(Mark 10:18) Jesus said to him: 'Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.

(Revelation 3:14) the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God

(Philippians 2:5-6) Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God's form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God

(John 8:42) Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth

(John 12:49) I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak

(John 14:28) I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am

(1 Corinthians 15:28) But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him

(Matthew 20:23) this sitting down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father

(1 Corinthians 11:3) I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; ...in turn the head of the Christ is God

(John 20:17) I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.

(Deuteronomy 6:4) Jehovah our God is one Jehovah

(1 Corinthians 8:4-6) There is no God but one. For even though there are those who are called "gods," whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many "gods" and many "lords," there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him

Thanks again for an opportunity to share what the bible actually says about the distinct persons of Jesus Christ the Son and Jehovah God the Father!

Learn more!
http://watchtower.org/e/ti/index.htm?article=article_05.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/20050422/
http://watchtower.org/e/20020515/
http://watchtower.org/e/rq/index.htm?article=article_03.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/lmn/index.htm?article=article_04.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/pr/index.htm?article=article_04.htm