How many christians confuse "faith" and "logic"?

Question

I once had a lengthy discussion with my brother in law about the existence/non-existence of god.

He insisted that he believed in god because of logic rather than faith.

After some 6 hours of debate, slowly dissecting the layers of his reasoning, he finally admitted that the seed of his reasoning was faith after all and not logic at all. He therefore was forced to admit that ultimately, his whole arguement was based on faith.

I know it seems like a long discussion over something that many may consider a minor point, but to both of us it was important, as I think such fundamental points should be.

It's important to be able to seperate what people arrive at through logical reasoning from ideas based on faith.

How many christians make the same mistake as my brother in law?

Answer 1

I'd say the same amount as any other person from any other category that never used a dictionary.

Answer 2

... and how many atheist make the same mistake?

I've asked a question right here on YA about atheism being logical. The conclusions were that, since you can't prove or disprove the existence of God by using science, atheism was, in a scientific point of view, as logical as any other idea anyone might have about our purpose and existence.

Me, I still think atheism is pretty ilogical, and although I could argue with you for hours, I know that there is a great deal of faith influenciating my ideas (it couldn't be any different).

Is there faith in atheist thinking? A lot of people say that you have to have "faith" to believe in the Big Bang and in the evolution theory, and thats BS (sorry, but really it insults my faith and my job when people say that). Now, about being an atheist I think it takes "faith" to accept the absence of God.

I don't think I awnsered your question though.
A lot of people confuse faith and logic, including many christians (expecially christians since we're supose to live by faith). That dosen't mean that they are mutually exclusive, faith and logic.

sorry about possible english errors

Great awnser MiD.

Answer 3

Well eventually they all fall back on faith. I have had hundreds if not thousands of discussions like that with believers and logic does give way, it can take seconds or hours but faith is always appealed to in the end.

Answer 4

Define faith.
1 Timothy 1:4 places it as the opposite of endless genealogies and myth. True faith requires an understanding of the principle at James 4:14 - Why you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.

Superstition means over standing as in things that stand over from the past. Myth is the same. It relies on precedent. But precedent can be interpreted so many different ways. Faith means not placing undue importance on unproveable assumptions, such as that family connections are necessarily in the deciding factor in people's decisions. We have consciousness. Faith means believing that we are all living in the same reality. In fact, it is necessary for science if we are to have repeatable experiments, peer review, heuristical methods etc. It requires a commitment to keeping up.

Logic, on the other hand, is a sign convention, according to Nietzsche. I can't be bothered looking it up at the moment. Faith recognises the usefulness of sign conventions, such as logic and language. It is not the same as a sign convention. Faith goes alongside the other fruits of the spirit - love, joy, peace, goodness, kindness, mildness, self-control and long-suffering.

A sign convention is, according to physics and Wikipedia, a system of representing the same physical system because it can be correctly described using different choices for the signs, as long as one set of definitions is used consistently. This is logic.

If Christians are appealing to faith rather than logic, what this means in my terminology (which is consistent across my posts, even if my thoughts change as I do further Bible research each day) is that they are appealing to a personal viewpoint of the meaning of the past as conveyed to them rather than pointing out the necessity of personal integrity, which is what true logic is based on. Perhaps the words are being confused, as faith seems to be appropriated to the meaning of superstition quite often (over standing from the past) and this is where atheists and Christians go head to head. They are dealing with the same mythemes but they are either stuck on their own mythemes, because they're convinced that something in their personal life for which they are being blamed is not their fault, or they would like to swap beliefs. This is a scary thing for atheists and Christians alike when others want to take up their beliefs about mythemes. It basically means that they want an excuse to say to somebody "but I've changed now" and point to their recent spiritual conversion as an example. The belief system which is receiving a new intended member will likely want some proof of devotion considering that the incomer likely brings with them personal baggage if they are looking for a new belief system. This initiation is where you get mysticism from - people being asked to take it on "faith" that it will get better - it's just a transition phase, product of your own imagination that people are treating you badly etc. when you first rock up to a new church. It's like you have to prove yourself before you can get spiritual help. People need spiritual help RIGHT NOW. They do not need to take it on faith that it will happen. Anybody who can't assist in the moment isn't going to "find out" how to later either. They will only be basing any delayed assistance on a second-hand assessment of their personal subjective opinion of you. Faith should counteract this tendency to judge before helping.

Answer 5

That's just one person you're refering to, can't take that as Gospel truth just the same, but you are supposed to have faith so whats your point? I don't think they all start with logic before they start to believe, it would have been faith in my case from my Mum telling me as a child but then i searched for logic myself now........
but hey
I dont even go to church anymore unless my Daughter drags me to her church the other side of town lol
so what i say may not be important

Answer 6

The funny thing is, in the end, any opinion one has about the existence or non-existence of God is necessarily based on faith.
I wonder how many atheists realize that their stance is as faith-based as any other religion??

Answer 7

Pastor Billy says: am i able to get an, Amen brother? actuality is... Protestantism have been on condition that's start up attacking Catholicism consequently non-Catholic Christianity is termed Protestant or "reform theology" To be Protestant isn't unavoidably to be professional-Christian as much because it truly is to be anti-Catholic. The irony is this... Protestantism isn't authentic except it is not Catholicism while Catholicism is often authentic with out having to be no longer-Protestant. In different words Catholicism would not locate actuality in having to tutor Protestantism incorrect because it truly is orthdoxy and actuality is intrinic to it. addition: One small element I forgot to characteristic, in a majority of situations Protestantism would not truly protest Catholicism yet a cariacture of it. I in simple terms study the respond from somebody 2 posts previously mine and he or she looks to think of Catholics at the instant are not taught properly on Jesus lol. I ought to anticipate she has been fed the common incorrect information, slander and propaganda that has been circulating among Protestants by fact the Protestant theory some 450 years in the past. addition #2, i discover myself having to return here and make extra reviews as I study different peoples incomplete solutions. somebody has stated Foxes e book of Martyrs as evidence against the goodness of Catholicism lol. The irony in this piece of evidence is... the total first a million/2 of the e book purely incorporates thoughts of Roman Catholic saints who're to today nonetheless honored by Catholics and not Protestants. the guy attempting to apply this as evidence is puzzled approximately why it develop into written and whilst. It develop into written for the time of Tudor England as propaganda to help the persecution of Catholics on the hands of Protestants upset with the civil reign of Mary Tudor who tried to return England to that's Catholic roots after the dying of her brother Edward. Mary develop into labelled bloody Mary by retribution against particular people who had persecuted Mary and her mom Catherine in the process the time of Edward and her father Henry VIII. what's finest is that for the time of the reign of Elizabeth I her a million/2 sister greater human beings have been murdered and disappeared under Protestant rule. lots for Foxe's e book.

Answer 8

I'm making a mistake right now

Answer 9

The only ones making a mistake are those who have not placed their faith in Christ. Everything else opinion

Answer 10

I think everyone have done this