Some people are homosexual, others are not - what difference does it make for military service?

Question

Let's see some responses accompanied by evidence, not just pre-formed opinions not supported by evidence.

I have heard that Israel's defense forces do not care at all about the sexual orientation of their soldiers. Can anybody confirm or refute this claim?

In ancient Greece, the most formidable fighting force was the Spartans. Military training was not in groups but was one-on-one. A boy was committed to an experienced warrior, who spent years teaching him, training him to fight, fighting at his side. Adversaries knew that fighting a Spartan would be challenging because the two men always fought together. They understood each other's abilities and psychology thoroughly because they lived together for years, and slept together as lovers. They were bonded in every way, and could predict each other's reactions. Together 24 hours a day for years, they knew each other's strengths and weaknesses. In combat they fought as a single warrior unit. Being gay did not weaken them.

Answer 1

I say its up to our military. If they think it is bad then why should we question them. We have the most advanced fighting force in the world. I really don't think regular civilians can say whether sexual orientation matters in combat or not, its up to them lets keep it that way.

Answer 2

Simply put, America is not Israel or ancient Greece. It's all about numbers. If you were in charge of making defense department policy, and you wanted to change this rule, you would need to ask yourself one major question; Would the number of new recruits gained equal or exceed the number of potential recruits lost? So far, the answer has been no. The majority of recruits come from the Southern and Midwestern states, where homosexuality is not widely accepted, and many soldiers would reject the idea of living with and around openly gay soldiers. So changing this policy would lead to decreased recruitment and discord within the ranks, not exactly a winning combination.

Answer 3

As a Woman in the US Military, I think it would be OK but here is the Problem. If the US military Allows gays it must recognize them. That would be a Legal precedence. Now If I marry in the Military I cannot serve on the same "ship" let's say. If I get pregnant that is yet another issue. So Now we Have a legal precedence Allowing Gays and so Marriage by law is next. You could have half the crew getting married just before battle! Just so some could get out of it. Next since they cannot have babies one would adopt and OPT out of the Service and sue for that Right as well. How can you run a service like that? I am not saying it is right or wrong but evidents shows me the US services has concerns.

Answer 4

As a officer I can tell you openly gay soldiers in the military would seriously undermine moral. When your in the trenches or doing house to house searches where you can be fired upon any second from any direction the last thing a man wants worry about is the guy behind him sticking him in the butt. Soldiers form tight knit groups that are used to survive and get through deployment and get home, and a gay soldier can easily destroy a trust bond between two soldiers, which causes distractions, and a distraced soldier is a dead soldier.

Answer 5

Spartan society is 2400 + years in the past... and not particularly relevant to today's military.

Today's US military is directed by the Pentagon under the orders of the President, and the control (pay and laws) of Congress.

I can only discuss MY 15 yrs of experience in the US Navy... aboard ship we sleep 15-100 people in the space of your average 2 bedroom condo. We're stacked 3 high in racks, and share very close quarters.

Now I know most gay-men AREN'T predators, NOR screaming-queens (forgive the phrase girls)... BUT most Navy enlisted folks particularly are of Judeo-Christian upbringing that doesn't tolerate homosexual behavior, and we would be VERY uncomfortable sharing quarters that close. NOT an opinion, a FACT.

Also, the UCMJ currently forbid Sodomy and Rape (carnal knowledge with other than your spouse)... so we'd have to change the LAW.

I knew of 3 guys who were gay... 2 were kicked out in training, and the other was the imfamous AW1 Keith Meinhold.

Keith was an EXCELLENT technican operator and analyst who was completely in the closet until President-elect Clinton announced HIS intent to open the services to homosexuals. Keith came screaming out of the closet... and got discharged. He was then reinstated... but had to have an AWC as an ESCORT to protect him.

Answer 6

You are entirely wrong about the Spartan civilization. Spartans fought in phalanxes, not in couples. Military training was done in groups once the child was said to be a man (After he had completed his right of passage). Spartan's viewed homosexuality as disgusting and frequently made fun of Athens and other Greek-city states because they allowed it. You need to get your facts straight. You are completely incorrect. This is verging on made-up bullshit. You might be thinking of the THESBIANS.

The reason why we dont allow gays in the military is because it makes the other men unconfortable. I do not want to sleep in a barracks where there are gay guys and neither do many other straight guys. Homosexuality gets in the way of the very essential bonds that need to form in order to fight as a military unit.

Answer 7

When I was in the military, everybody -- but the well connected -- got drafted. That means I took showers with gays. I never thought about it, but if I knew a gay and I were showering together, I wouldn't care -- nor should anyone else.

We're asking our military to do some very scary things, risk their lives, go into areas where anything could happen. Showering with a gay guy seems awfully trivial by comparison.

Answer 8

Fra59,

Your view of the Spartans is a common mistake mainly among homosexual men attempting to validate an arguement for homosexual in the military.

Your description is historically inaccurate. In Sparta homosexuality was hated since the Athenians were mostly a bi-sexual society and engaged in this activity. The Spartans hated the Athenians and everything they represented including their loose sexual preferences. They thought they were gluttonous, lazy, decadent pigs honestly.

What you say about Spartans in terms of their relationship with older warriors is somewhat inaccurate. They did not have a "lover" as you state. In fact having a lover was quite hard in Sparta you could have a wife but since everything in Sparta was designed to increase your military skills you had to "infiltrate" her bedroom.

The Spartans hated homosexuality so much that they used homosexual rape as punishment to those in training. They would take a person undergoing training and if they needed to be punished they would usually use some form of physical torture and they did this publicly infront of the other Spartans being trained as warriors. Sometimes this included beatings, however there came a time when the beatings would no longer affect the Spartans being trained, so now they had to use attacks on honor as a means to keep discipline. They were raped infront of the others in a homosexual manner as a means of punishment. If you did something wrong, and beating wouldnt work, they would make you as worthless as an Athenian and do so publicly. This had nothing to do with love, and caring sorry to disapoint you.

The romantic homosexual notion of two brave men who are warriors and lovers at the same time is just a myth, or something made up by homosexual men to justify their presense in the Armed Forces. This is not what happened with the Spartans.

Homosexuality was hated so much that its public use was a means of dicsipline. Being raped was seen as a sign of dishonor, and since the infliction of pain didnt work they would turn to that.

If you were a straight man and a violation of the rules meant that you would be raped publicly infront of those who respect you, would you break the rules? You can see the effectiveness of this technique, since the infliction of pain in other ways after a while seems to not work.

You are also incorrect about the Spartans training it was not one on one as you say. This is another myth brought on by homosexuals it would seem. I study military history, and in particular the Spartans. It is true that they did have older warriors training them until the age of 16 but it was both one on one and in groups its just sometimes it ended up being one on one since the rest of the group died while in training.

Sorry to disapoint you but what you stated is historically inaccurate, I run into this arguement alot when I talk to homosexuals, its simply something that they made up and is not based on historical fact.

Answer 9

I'm not getting the point of your question. If you don't know if someone is gay then it doesn't make a difference at all. If you know then it's what you think about it. Everyone's beliefs on someone who is homosexual is different. It wouldn't matter a damn if they like to do it with a person of the same sex or not. You won't know till you ask and if you don't want to know then don't ask. So really we should be asking you if you have a problem with someone who is homosexual or not.

Answer 10

The difference that it makes is that often times members of the same sex are forced to bunk with each other, and I think our soldiers should hve a right to sleep at night without wondering if the guy next to him is checking him out.