Should a neo-nazi organization be permitted to palm itself off as a religion?

Question

I just ran a google check on something called Asatru and it turns out in this country one of it's founders is the self-described neo-nazi fascist intellectual Michael Moynihan,who edits a Asatru journal called RUNES. It's basically a follow-up to Heinrich Himmler's attempts to revive the the ancient Germanic myths as a substitute religion for "Jewish-influenced" Christianity. This is no harmless little minority religion like the Bahai Faith or the Jorhei Fellowship. These people mean business. This so-called Norse Heathenism is openly led by people who regard Adolf Hitler as a mystical figure. Normally I go out of my way to be tolerant of small religions - even if they do seem strange - but this is more political than religious,and obviously incorporates some truly vile traditions. Look up this Moynihan and see what you think. Personally,I think all this asatru stuff belongs in sociology not religion - if it belongs anywhere.

Answer 1

Unfortunately...there are some Asatruar that do hold to the Nazi ideals. HOWEVER...the ideals of Nazism are a fundamentally in Opposition to what REAL Asatru is. Truth be told, Hitler and the Nazi movement set not only the rebirth of the Nordic religion, but the study of all things Germanic back almost a century. I am familiar with Michale Moynihan's work and his views are NOT accepted bu the majority of those that follow the Asatru religion. There are a small group that do hold those ideas, and they are pretty much outcasts among REAL Asatruar. Don't forget that the Nazi's were, despite the veneer of Nordic symbology, followers of a mix of Christian dogma and PURPOSELY MISINTERPRETED Nordic mysical and philosophical ideas. Hitler often compared himself tp Jeasus, Paul, Peter and several other prominent figures of Early Christianity. You can't take a small segment of ANY religious group and assume that simply becasue they are the vocal ones that the are representative of the entire group. That sort of Racism has NO PLACE in the practice of Asatru (or for that matter in ANY religion, pagan or otherwise). It is people like Moynihan and his ilk that make it harder for those that sincerely worship the gods. People have, at differnt times used just about EVERY religion as a basis for some sort of racial intolerance (ask the native peoples here in the US, or look into the justifications used for slavery in the pre-Civil War era). Moynihan's logic is flawed....his reasoning has more holes than a piece of swiss cheese...and he would be a racist regardless of what religion he was PRETENDING to follow. If he were TRULY knowledgable about Asatru he would know that his ideas DO NOT belong. To the best of my knowlege he is NOT welcome in any of the larger national organizations, or thier affiliates. Several of the national groups that practice Asatru here in the US, The Ring Of Troth and the Asatru Alliance, as well as the Asatru Folk Asembly make it clear that racism of that type will NOT be tolerated and anyone attempting to use the organization, its membership, or its name to promote any such agenda will be expelled. Infact at one gathering I attended several years ago a group of such racists tried to join the Asatru Alliance and were notified that they would NOT be admitted and would NOT be welcome at any future gatherings. Racism and Asatru DO NOT mix, ever. They are completely incomapatible with one another and even a short investigation into groups other than Moynihans' would reveal that. Moynihan is no more representative of Asatru than the KKK is representative of Christians.

If you want to know about REAL Asatru...read the writings of Erded Thorsson (or Stephen Flowers) Kveldulf Gundarsson, Freyja Aswynn, along with the works of James Chisholm.

Answer 2

That must have been some search... when I put "Asatru" into the Google search engine, I go through about 150 hits before I run across Michael Moynihan... and most of those are sites that actually have information about Asatru.

Just like every other organization, the Asatru community is made up of individuals - and each individual is entitled to his or her own opinions.

To base your opinion of an entire faith on the exceptions-to-the-rule is dangerous, though. Should every follower of Islam be judged by the actions of al Queda? Should every Christian church by judged by the actions of the men who shoot abortion clinic doctors?

Asatru is a religion. It is the religion of those who put their faith in the Gods and Goddesses of the ancient North. It is a faith that promotes family and truth and honor.

You're right about one thing - the racist, neo-nazi crap a very small number of so-called Asatruar spew so loudly *is* more political than religious. But their political views do not change the core of the faith... any more than David Koresh changed the core of Christianity... or Osama bin Laden changed the core of Islam...

If you "go out of [your] way to be tolerant" - perhaps you should look at the Religious Tolerance entry (link provided) on Asatru before you begin condemning all of us because of the opinions of one man.

Answer 3

Hate to break it to you but you're so far from correct, historically speaking that I'm about to be ill. How is it that people pull one piece of information down off of a shelf, or somesuch and take it as the sole truth that exists?

The belief structure has empirical evidence that it existed LONG before Hitler and even had influence on historic Hinduism to a degree, which scholars of Hinduism give nod to as well.

People who USE religion for their own ends exists worldwide, sociopaths who call themselves "Christian" and "Muslim" are quite easily empircally evident and so is the fact that many groups of white "supremacists" are doing the same by adopting Asatru as their own for their hate, and many groups are STILL calling themselves "Christian" as well. Everybody who has half an education and a mind can tell you these terrorists aren't not practicing TRUE Christianity nor Islam and the white supremacists aren't practicing real Asatru either.

Hitler borrowed and stole from whatever religion he could sink his insane fingers into to prop up his agenda, which was a mishmash of over 3 religions, so they follow suit. What they, and the newer groups that act like they follow Asatru actually believe, in no way follows the basic tenets of Asatru.

Do some HONEST research and read more than one pathetic, biased source. Real scholars will tell you this is an important part of learning. You look more like you're trying to stir up hate more than anything by doing THIS.


_()_

Answer 4

You're deliberately spreading misinformation.
What is it your "good" book says? "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."?
Guess what you're doing? Bearing false witness against your neighbors.

The neo-Nazi contingent amongst the Asatruar is a small but very vocal group. Rather akin to the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. The fact of the matter is that those people are racists, first and foremost, and are using the symbology of the Nordic folk (being what they consider the epitome of white people) to spread their bile and hatred.
If you had truly done any research, though, you would have found that Michael Moynihan (I've met the guy) was a young child when Asatru was restarted in America, and that the person who gave us the spiritual kickstart was Stephen McNallen, along with Michael Murray. Else Christensen was also a fairly significant player, and while she didn't eschew anyone who called themselves Asatru, she also very LITERALLY worked propaganda against the Nazi machine including its leader, himself, during World War II. She, too, has been accused of supporting National Socialism by the extremely ignorant, or in your case, those who willfully spread misinformation with the express intent of defaming the character of a group.

I want to make it very clear, here.
Asatru is about the honoring of the Aesir and Vanir Gods, the Landvaettir, and the Disir.

Racists infiltrate EVERY organization they can in an effort to provide legitimacy to their moronic idealogies.

And by the way... I think I'll be sending this "question" along to a law professor my wife works with.
I think this applies:

In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against criticism.

It's called libel. And I think you may just be guilty.

Answer 5

I think you need to do a tad bit more research before you condemn Asatru as supporting the Neo-Nazi movement. I’ve known a few people who practice Asatru and all of them would have condemned Nazism. If you had bothered to do any sort of scholarly research you would have not come to this ridiculous conclusion.

If you are actually interested in learning about Neo-Pagan religion in America I would suggest a good place to start would be “Drawing down the Moon” by Margot Adler. Alternatively you could actually talk to a variety of people who practice a religion before you condemn it. Having at least a little integrity is a good thing.

The sort of thing you are doing here serves nobody, including yourself, very well.

Pabs

Answer 6

So because a member of a religion did something objectionable then the whole religion should be banned? Well that puts an end to Islam because of al-Qaeda, and it puts an end to the Hebrew faith because of the violent attacks on Islams during the 70's from Israel (even after the U.N. told them to back off and they attacked a U.S. Navy surveillance ship - U.S.S. Liberty) . Oh and that also puts an end to the religion that has had the most number of violent followers, Christianity. Have you ever heard of the Inquisition, the Burning Times, The Crusades, not to mention countless other atrocities that have been cause by "Christian Soldiers"

Do not judge a faith by a few extremists, I know a few Asatru followers and they are among the most peaceful people around, as a matter of fact, one of them runs a shelter for wild animals that have been inadvertently harmed by humans.

Answer 7

I've been studying asatru for a while now.

And let me tell you this, NO where in any of the things i have read has it EVER mentioned Hitler AT ALL!!!

and i have never heard of this Michael Moynihan either!

I dont know where you are getting your information from, but it is Not True At ALL!!!

Answer 8

"Normally I go out of my way to be tolerant of small religions - even if they do seem strange - but this is more political than religious,and obviously incorporates some truly vile traditions."

Well, aren't you precious? It looks to me like you're going out of your way to sling mud on an otherwise perfectly good religion. Even resorting to making up sh*t. . Most American Neo-nazis are in fact christians. Maybe we should hold Christianity accountable for the KKK and the Aryan Brotherhood? Asatru is neither an organized religion nor a political movement, and the racist assholes you're referring to are avoided like the plague by other Pagans and ESPECIALLY by other Asatruar. Asatru does NOT teach the deification of Hitler and does NOT teach racism.

Get fuct, troll.

Answer 9

Since you are just trolling and have no actual interest in learning anything: I am just going to post some links so that readers aren't mislead by your slander and bigotry. Seriously lady, you need to do some more home work.

Any Asatruar who openly claimed to be a Nazi or White supremacist would be shunned all the other Asatruars and other Heathens and Pagans. You know, kind of like how Christians shun Ku Kluxers? Fringe groups who pervert religions for their own political agendas are not welcome.

There is no leader of Asatru and it's not a political or organized movement at all.

Read and maybe you will learn:
http://home.earthlink.net/~wodensharrow/hah.html
http://www.odinsvolk.ca/Freedom.htm
http://www.ravenkindred.com/nid.htm

Answer 10

I reckon Himmler was gay, and was Hitler's Ahithophel. Jewish-influenced Christianity, according to Hitler, at any rate, might have been the revolution influence. He didn't like Marxism either, for the same reason. The stereotype for women (daughters in particular) is that they are revolutionary. Look in Heinemann's dictionary. The word "son" is illustrated by the sentence "sons of the soil". Daughters are "daughters of the revolution.

Isaiah 3:18-23 shows the sort of body adornment that seems to be occultic/revolutionary. In the end, it's all the same thing. What on earth do people think the Jews kept on getting in trouble for? Paganism.

Hitler did have a way of talking mystically though. I'm glad to see that this is regarded as being a negative.