What can possibly be the purpose of a religion that doesn't care if you're good or bad?

Question

Only in the last hour I've read again around 30 statements like "good deeds don't get you to Heaven, you need to believe in Jesus, that's all".

If we are going to be judged anyway, what kind of person doesn't wanna be judged on his/her deeds? How bad a person must you be to hope that believing in some dude gives you a free ticket to eternal happiness?

Answer 1

I disagree that belief in Jesus is all that is required of us (the demons believe and tremble). I believe that while we can't earn salvation, we also can't abuse our relationships with God by failing to take responsibility for our actions or neglecting our part in developing our spiritual growth and maturity.

It's not that it doesn't matter if you're good or bad, it's that your relationship is not built on good or bad. It's built on love.

I think this is one of those concepts that we understand in a practical sense, but it's very hard to pin down and explain to someone.

Have you ever had the experience of someone trying to buy your affections? It doesn't have to be with money, maybe they tried to do things that would impress you, or used sex or flattery - whatever. The thing is, if that person is doing those things in order to purchase a good relationship with you, those things actually get in the way of you having a good relationship with them. If I can buy you, I am entitled to you. That's not the basis of a good relationship. That's not love.

Even if I "get" you, I can never feel like you really love me in return, because I'll always attribute it to my purchase price. I'll worry that you stay because you love the things (or perks, or services), rather than me. Who wants a relationship built on works?

I think it's the same with the grace vs. works debate. We can't be good enough to earn salvation, because salvation is about relationship. We can no more _earn_ a good relationship with God than we can with each other.

I think some Christians take the idea of grace to a dangerous conclusion, though, when they assert that we cannot fall out of our relationships with God. I believe we can. It's not that if I sin, I've blown my relationship with God and there's no way back. But grace, as Paul says, is not a license to sin any more than my friendship with you is a license to hurt you. You may forgive me for hurting your feelings once in a while as long as you know that my intentions toward you are generally good and I show myself to be a friend in other ways. Love allows for the foibles of others.

But if I show myself to be really uncaring and hurtful to you and get mad when you get upset with me because I feel entitled to your goodwill and friendship, I've really overstepped, haven't I?

All relationships have boundaries and limits. I grant that God is more patient with us than we are with each other (barring codependent relationships, but they're dysfunctional), but I believe God sets limits with us.

And, really, how can we claim to love Him and disobey? Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

It is important that we do good deeds, but I cannot do enough good deeds to earn a good relationship with God.

In the end, _earning_ is not the currency of love.

Answer 2

They have plenty of ways to get around this one. One of my favorites is the claim that once you accept Jesus as "your personal savior" (whatever that means), you are going to heaven whether you like it or not. But on the way, you may have to do some time in the penalty box (purgatory). Problem is, purgatory is almost entirely a Catholic concept, so you also have to be a Catholic, which does not in general discount the value of good works over faith. So you need to hop over your own church to get to the conclusion that it all comes out even.

Or there is the claim that you will just naturally (???) be sweet and kind and do good deeds, and so there's no harm in guaranteeing your place in heaven.

I doubt that any Christian sect believes it does not matter what you do. They just don't take it as decisive about whether you will get into heaven or not. It matters, but it does not matter at the time of your death.

Go figure. I prefer to see people accept responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

Answer 3

Icarus32 proposes an interesting argument. Some times Religion and some of its folowers is so steeped in their own self importance that notions of good, bad and probably even god itself becomes the peripheral issue. Many people buy into the idea that wholesale consumerisation of religion (TV evnagelists anyone) is enough for some kinda reserve in paradise or something. That too me is ridicolous and the idea of getting a some kind of intrinsic reward for good deeds may serve to dilute the idea of kindes or comapssion or empathy. Maybe we should care less about god and believe more in humanity. Afterall god wouldn't mind being enlightned and wise and all!

Answer 4

An excellant question.

I think that the basis of Christianity has been seriously bastardized by this over-emphasis on that "I am the way" quotation. If Jesus really was the son of God and is really sitting there watching us, he's probably kicking himself in the butt for ever uttering that. What the guy said was stuff like "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and "put up with ("suffer") the little children" and told good samaratian parables as "as you have done to the least of these, so you have done unto me." The guy wanted people to be good to one another and to let god be the judge and to stfu and worry about the log in your own eye before the splinter in another's. He didn't say "be an a.h. but believe in me so you can hang with me and pop for eternity."

Answer 5

...not to mention that having performed the good deeds without hope for an eternal life or other tricks, seems much more difficult and earnest than doing good deeds for fear of punishment or out of love for the said dude. ...I mean that guy on the cross next to Jesus - he was just about to suffer a quite unpleasant death, of course he was so very willing to believe in whatever whoever would have told him to believe in in order to get something more after the cross event...

Answer 6

INDEED. Jesus cares a lot about if we are good or bad. He is calling us to the higher standard of what is moral, God's standard.

If the salvation would be about us, no one would make it. That is why Jesus made the way. Everyone who will accept Him as a Savior will go to heaven. But whoever accepts Him, needs to show it with deeds.

Paul tells us how to become Christian and James goes more to the detail about what is expected from us once we are Christians. : )

Answer 7

What you might want to understand is that what others say is always, from your tiny point of view, 'How you interpert what they said'! What you are thinking is really the key. So you, automatically, have decided that what you think is the absolute truth. Hmmm, there seems to be a problem here.
Believing in anything is foolhardy, and this is especially true when it comes to 'believing in what 'YOU' think!
Welcome to reality!!!

Answer 8

Seems like they want the reward without the responsibility of actually being a moral person.

Only atheism allows for true morality.

Answer 9

whew, Markyy when I first saw your question (without details) I thought, "wait, my religion doesn't care if you're good or bad".
But, we have no threat of eternal damnation going on either..
I don't get it either.. if all it takes is :123 pray after me, get your ticket to heaven which equates to a license to sin (do they get a 00 like James Bond?) and you still get to heaven.. what kind of god do they worship?

Answer 10

The real problem is, these folks wouldn't recognize heaven. Heaven is a skill.