Atheists, can you please clear this up for me?

Question

First of let me say that I respect and understand your reasons for not believing in god and for speaking out against the tyranny of religion. I also do not like to associate myself with any religion, but what does disturb me about atheism is the fact that it sounds so bleak. The belief that nothing exists after death can seem a bit unpleasant. No reason for life, and no goals but what we set for ourselves. It makes everything seem so pointless does it not? Is life that meaningless? What about the bonds that we create with our friends and loved ones? What do we strive for as a people? According to atheism everything that is good and worth fighting for only lasts for a short period of time then just, ends. What kind of impact can it have on people around us? What is righteous now was not righteous in the past and may not be righteous in the future, but if we have something that never changes, an absolute that can never be corrupted by the hands of man, then it gives this life, no matter how short it may be, endless meaning. I am not talking about a god or heaven but a state of enlightenment, a collected consciousness that can carry all the knowledge that humanity has acquired and use it to reach the next level of evolution. I am aware that perhaps I believe this because “the truth” may be unpalatable to me, but if you believe that the only goals we have are the ones we set for ourselves, then I can say that that is the way atheists keep life from being unpalatable to them. Does this belief really sit well with you?

Answer 1

I don't know about other atheists, but as for myself, I am a Taoist. We do not accept the thinking that there are gods. As far as other things, maybe you can get an idea of the different 'thinkings' in atheism. Even though Taoism defies being 'nutshelled', I'll try to do it for you for being so honest in your question. Try and remember - these things bearly scratch the surface as far as how Taoism is considered.

• Belief in Deity
The supreme being/ultimate truth is beyond words or any conceptual understanding. When asked to name it, it is referred to as Tao or the Way. The Power of the Way is referred to as Te. Although Tao and Te are similar to other practices' ideas of God, Taoists seldom refer to God.

• Incarnations
Taoism does not refer to any specific incarnation of God.

• Origin of Universe and Life
All matter is a manifestation of the Ultimate Reality. Generally, Taoist beliefs don't find modern scientific discoveries contradictory to Taoist thought; hence Fritjof Capra's "The Tao of Physics" is aptly named.

• After Death
Death has no particular meaning to Taoists.

• Why Evil?
To understand the Taoist notion of good and evil, it is important to distinguish between the "concept" of evil versus the "reality" of evil.
As a concept, Taoist do not hold the position of good against evil; rather they see the interdependence of all dualities. So when one labels something as a good, one automatically creates evil. That is, all concepts necessarily are based on one aspect vs. another; if a concept were to have only one aspect, it would be nonsensical.
The reality of good and evil is that all actions contain some aspect of each. This is represented in the t'ai chi, more commonly referred to as the yin-yang symbol. Any action would have some negative (yin) and some positive (yang) aspect to it. Taoists believe that nature is a continual balance between yin and yang, and that any attempt to go toward one extreme or the other will be ineffective, self-defeating, and short-lived. When people interfere with the natural balance by trying to impose their egoistic plans, they will not succeed; rather, the non-egoistic person allows nature to unfold, watching it ebb and flow from good to bad and back again.
Another way of understanding this is that the sage person understands the reality of good and evil, whereas the fool concentrates on the concept of good and evil. The sage knows that any evil will soon be replaced by good, the fool is forever fruitlessly trying to eliminate evil. Similar to the Buddhist concept of Sunyata ("the void"), good and evil are just empty conceptual abstractions that have no permanent independent existence.

• Salvation
Taoism is not a salvific practice. There is nothing that one needs to be saved from, and belief in salvation would lead to belief in damnation in the same manner as belief in good leads to belief in evil. Although they do not accept the false duality of salvation vs. damnation, living simply in harmony with Te and Tao, and not excessively pursuing material wealth, stature, or prestige, will lead to a joyful life.

• Contemporary Issues
Positions on abortion, homosexuality, divorce, nonviolence, and social-betterment programs are not unambiguously stated in the ancient texts. One might be able to derive a stance on these issues, but any such stance would be attenuated by the recognition that any stance is just a conceptual abstraction that has little usefulness.
Taoism would see expressing traditionally male and female roles as being in harmony. In some sects of Taoism, spiritual healing is practiced. Protecting nature is favored, though not by laws or injunction.

Answer 2

It does sit well with me. I don't find it bleak, I have something to strive for - to make each day I have as full as I possibly can. It's a nice thought you had about absolutes that can't be corrupted, but everything becomes corrupted somehow doesn't it? Look at anything - Communism on paper was a great idea, but was corrupted by men. Or the idea behind Jonestown - corrupted by one man's Messiah complex. Religion has been corrupted by the men who lead it, since the beginning. The idea that this life is just a way to waste time before I die, so that I can be rewarded for being "good" (which is highly subjective, by the way) once I'm dead, is what is unpalatable to me. I'm sure my view may seem cynical, but it's how I perceive life. Why must life have a point? Why do we as a species feel this need to have a purpose, or that our lives mean nothing if we don't? Can't it just be about making ourselves into the best people we can possibly be, and helping our fellow beings to do the same? Is that really so hard to get behind?

Answer 3

**The belief that nothing exists after death can seem a bit unpleasant.**

Lots of things in life are unpleasant--immunization shots, working for a living at a job you hate, dealing with the death of a loved one--does that mean you should deny their reality because they make you sad? There is NO evidence for an afterlife. To believe in something without evidence is far sadder than to accept something in spite of how it makes you feel.

**No reason for life, and no goals but what we set for ourselves. It makes everything seem so pointless does it not? Is life that meaningless?**

On the contrary, if you know there's no possibility of another life after this one, you will value this one all the more because it's the only one you have. You will value friendships, love, vacations, your family, everything, far more than you would if you wasted your life waiting and hoping for something that you can't even prove is real; and you will enjoy these things knowing there is no terrifying, painful punishment awaiting you if you didn't live quite right according to the dicatates of an invisible sky-daddy. Does that sound bleak to you?

**According to atheism everything that is good and worth fighting for only lasts for a short period of time then just, ends. What kind of impact can it have on people around us?**

What kind of impact does religion have on people everywhere, teaching them that there is nothing in this life worth living for, that all their happiness is to be found, not in life, but in death? Look at Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, the Big Three, constantly at war with each other and even within their own ranks, hating and fighting and arguing over whose afterlife is better. Their focus is on some other life, not this one, so they place less value on the here and now. I do not see that belief in an afterlife does anyone any good. It is on the same level as a child really, really wanting there to be a unicorn in the backyard; but as Mister Rogers once said, "No kinds of wishes can make things come true."

**What is righteous now was not righteous in the past and may not be righteous in the future, but if we have something that never changes, an absolute that can never be corrupted by the hands of man, then it gives this life, no matter how short it may be, endless meaning."

Words like "enlightnement" and "collective consciousness" sound profound, but are just meaningless babble. Seriously, what do they mean? If we are speaking of absolutes here, then your definition of these terms should be the same as everyone else's--that is what an "absolute" is, right? Something that is true for everyone, everywhere, through all of time? Well, there are no such absolutes in life. We live in a world where one person's righteousness is another's blasphemy, where there are thousands of different religions and spiritualities with different ideas of what an afterlife will be like, and not one of them has any evidence for any of it. Far from giving life meaning, blind belief in an imaginary Never-Never Land is pointless and makes life unnecessarily complicated.

Answer 4

Well, first, you're generalizing - that's a bad start. Second, life's not meaningless - it's that there's no overall, God-given purpose. It's up to anyone to define their own purpose.

And there's no *reaching the next level of evolution* - where'd *that* come from? And why "unpalatable" - d'ya find it that bad?

But the bonds and the striving are real - I just disagree that a whole life-time is fleeting... And there is no "impact" at all, it's just part of life, and death. I don't get your "problem" with this.

“I don't think we're here for anything, we're just products of evolution. You can say, "Gee, your life must be pretty bleak if you don't think there's a purpose,” but I'm anticipating a good lunch.” -- James Watson (DNA Structure Co-discoverer.)

Answer 5

Now, I am not an atheist, but I am going to answer your question. I asked a question similar to this one in Christian context. They all said they lived for the things on this earth like their family and friends, now that's all well and good, but you my friend realize that these things are only temporary, and that, in atheism compounded with the idea of Evolution, man has no greater purpose to exsist then for these things that will not last. I believe in creation and in eternity, weather it be heaven or hell. I believe in Biblical principles, I am a Christian, saved by the grace of my Lord, Jesus Christ. The truth is not "unpalatable" to me, I have attained the truth, I have found a purpose, for my exsistence. One that is everlasting. A state of enlightenment, a next step into evolution, will not matter, because in the end, you are going to die and there is nothing you can do about it. This world will no longer be for you one day. Now think, what happens after death? Do you know? I believe the unsaved will go to hell after death, and the saved into an eternal paradice that is heaven, to fufill their exsistence of worshipping and living with God to its fullest, something we on earth cannot do. I don't know about you, but I like the idea of have an eternal purpose instead of just ending everything after death. Think about it for a while, we are so intelligent, how did we become this way? certainly not out of some freak accident! I believe in Creation, I believe in a Creator, with a purpose and a plan I believe we were made by God. One day others will realize, like you have that this exsistence is so unfulfilling, there must be something else beyond this. I hope I don't sound like I'm in some far away dream, but I think you understand what I am saying. The truth does not have to be hidden from us, we can find it in the Word of God.

Answer 6

If you are concerned with the wellbeing of others and not just yourself you wouldn't think that way. You are making the mistake here of believing that all atheists believe the same thing about death. It's also a mistake to think that atheists believe that their lives are the only thing that's worth living for. Happiness is within ones self. I myself find comfort in the fact that this is the only life i will live. It makes it a very precious thing, the only thing i'll ever REALLY have... and i cherish it. I live my life for the moment and i don't worry about what will ultimately happen. One doesn't need a god or an afterlife to give their life meaning.

Answer 7

That is why I am agnostic. I do NOT belive that there IS a god I haven't found yet, I believe that there are NO gods other than ourselves. The distinction I make is that I do not know anything beyond my own consciousness, so I cannot logically make the black & white statement that there is NOTHING.

I know the basics of many religions, but each one eventually forces one to accept some fantastic idea or occurrence "on faith". I'm happy doing all I can with my life, and I'm satisfied with waiting to find out where it all goes.

Answer 8

I understand where you're coming from. Being that I grew up in an atheist household myself, I frequently was asked these types of questions. It was always so hard for me to answer as a child, I didn't understand where they were coming from. I was told quite often as a little girl that I will go to hell by other children for not believing in god. This did not scare me, because...I honestly didn't understand what hell was to them. It was foreign to me.

As an adult, I realize I never thought about afterlife as a child. I was not raised with a religion, so that absence is not something you think about or long for. If it's not presented in your face every Sunday, you don't think about afterlife as a child. "Where do I go when I die?" You die. It was never bleak to me or sad. It's the circle of life. You do not understand maybe because you did not grow up in the same atmosphere. My Dad more the science-guy and my mother the natural hippy. We do not fear death, we do not question our existence. We all feel in our own way, that it is something we are not meant to fully understand. Man cannot comprehend the complexities of our own being.

There is a lot out there unknown to us, perhaps it's meant to be this way, perhaps not.

But no, I personally don't ponder where I go when I die. It's an uncomprehendable topic that we will never know the answer to, and I personally feel that maybe we aren't meant to.

Answer 9

You, I know I am going to die. Does that suck. Well yeah, it has sucked for everybody has every lived, will lived and is alive today. We are not hateful, non-hopeful, angst ridden people. In fact, I love life. I love life because I know the lottery I have won. I am standing on a planet that happens to have life on it. I am the one sperm out of millions, that was produced not only at the correct time, but also, the jerk who made it in. Plus to top it off, I was born in America, not the best country to be born in, but not Africa or Hati or something. No, I appreciate life quite well since I don't brush off the suffering of others as gods will that easily. I want to do good for others because I know people suffering have only got this one shot. So any positive I do, is glorifying all of humanity. To make a person happy, to help, that makes it worth it for us. Life is completly palatable when you know what it is, and what it is you have.

Answer 10

Can you define "waves" and "energy"? I don't think you can or really understand these topics otherwise you'd understand evidence. That's why they are part of science, because there is evidence. Quantum physics is a branch of science that uses ideas of waves and energy and can also explain why things unseen like God and spirits and just about anything like that could exist. There is also an interesting quantum theory on gravity. There is plenty of evidence for gravity, masses being attracted to each other, even if the theories we're taught probably aren't exactly right. I'm going to pretend you didn't mention... wind.

Answer 11

I'm not technically an atheist, more agnostic... but lean towards atheism.

Life is great.. I really don't need the promise of an afterlife. It's not bleak at all - in fact, it's the opposite to me. I value this years I have, b/c they are all I have. THIS is heaven. Love, family, friends, good food & drink - this is IT, and I can't imagine it being better.

The idea of heaven makes me a bit sad. If I go before my husband, there is no heaven without him... I want to rest, cease to exist, and not suffer knowing he & my children suffer without me.

Does eternal rest sound so bad?