An exercise in critical thinking about Iraq.?

Question

Many people seem content to blame the US for the quagmire in Iraq. I wonder why more blame hasn't been given to the Iraqi people. If the Iraqi people are angered about the US "occupation" of Iraq, wouldn't it make sense for them to take a more proactive role in taking control of thier country. It seems to me that the sooner the Iraqi's can demonstrate that they can effectively deal with the sectarian violence, the quicker the US will be able to relinquish control of Iraq to the Iraqi's.
As long as US forces are in Iraq, what motivation do the Iraqi's have to take control over thier government. Do you really think the Iraqi people care how many American soldiers get killed? In short they have to live there we don't. Please think before you respond.

Answer 1

I'm a veteran of the current conflict, so I can appreciate your question. The only question you actually ask is "Do you really think the Iraqi people care how many American soldiers get killed?" My answer is no. This is backed up by polls of the Iraqi people that say that over 60% of Iraqi's think it's acceptable to attack coalition forces. You are correct in your assumption about Iraqis "demonstrating that they can deal with the sectarian violence." When they do that, we will leave. In fact, we'll probably leave before that.
Similarly, if my son demonstrates that he can use the toilet, I will stop trying to potty train him. Unfortunately, since my son is only 14 months old, I have serious doubts about his demonstration abilities.
The Iraqi government and the New Iraqi Army is also young. There is not a singe governmental institution that effectively operates across the country: not firefighters, police, ambulances, garbage collection....nothing). It is unreasonable to think that they would be able to act like a real government in such a short time.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that this war has been terribly mismanaged (i.e. there's never been enough soldiers on the ground, failure to understand counterinsurgency, alienating the former Ba'ath party, wet-nursing Al Sadr, etc.) Nonetheless, the inability of the current Iraqi government to act like a government is not at all surprising. Hopefully we can learn some lessons from our mistakes so as not to make them again. This is something we did not do after Vietnam, where we largely threw the baby out with the bathwater. Judging by the current state of the world, we may have to soon apply these lessons to Iran. In my opinion, this was the country we should have invaded in the first place, back in 1979.

Answer 2

As long as US forces are in Iraq, what motivation do the Iraqi's have to take control over thier government. Do you really think the Iraqi people care how many American soldiers get killed?

Exactly! And this is precisely why we need to set a timeline for withdrawal from Iraq. Let these people know that we will NOT continually sacrifice our brave and patriotic soldiers so they can live under the blanket of their protection!! They must learn that they have to assume leadership of their own country and the only way to motivate these people is to let them know when we'll be gone.

Answer 3

I'm sure the women and children have little control over insurgents blowing them up. Those who can control have two choices: join the insurgency, or join the police force. Whichever side you choose, you're going to be involved in conflict.

The US should assume a police role (and we are) but we are not setting up the Iraqi government, and those don't get setup overnight. Frankly, if the violence stops then our part is done and we can come home. If the Iraqis come to depend on us for security indefinitely, then something will have to be done.

Answer 4

You're expecting people who have never HAD to be proactive to suddenly do it.

We're not making them, so why should they? They're content. They've been living in a dictatorship longer than any of them can remember. They're used to being bossed around and having their civil rights violated. So we're there now, giving them food and money and providing their national security on our dime... why should they do anything?

Isn't that the point people always make about welfare recipients? If you keep giving them handouts, they'll keep taking them? What makes you think the Iraqis are any different?

And let's assume for a moment that we do establish a functional democracy in Iraq. How does such a passive, easily-swayed people protect a democracy?

If our democracy was threatened, we'd fight. Clearly, they would not, because their democracy IS being threatened, and they're not fighting - WE are.

Time to force them to take charge of their own lives. Dependent no more.

Answer 5

I agree with the answer above from Lame Duck entirely. That is truly what is making this conflict so difficult. A majority of people here seem to look at things in their own point of perspective and not from the perspective from The Middle East's. I have always been a Bush supporter and I think he has done a pretty good job as president. But his major downfall is the fact that he is so stubborn. It kills me to say, but I really think we should get out now. Even though it is before we finish our job, it is the best thing to do. Even though I know we will probably be back in another 10-11 years.

Answer 6

Part of your post is accurate and part is not .
I believe they should and will take more responsibility for their own country . But they need time . They don't have a fully-staffed police force or military. . . YET . Thereby making it impossible to defend for themselves .

But in answer to your second part . . . What motivation do they have. . . . . and 'do you really think they care about how many Americans get killed' .
They have great motivation knowing that the President has demanded significant progress by this fall .
And it's not a matter of whether they care about Americans getting killed , but more of a matter of how many Iraqi brothers and sisters are getting killed . That will motivate them .

Answer 7

McCain's friend and advisor Phil Gramm sponsored the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which caused the Enron, mortgage and present oil contracts speculation debacles. Obama has vowed to reform the act. McCain denies speculation is a problem. McCain intends to wage war on Iran via our permanent military bases in Iraq. Obama vows to withdraw our troops from Iraq, only leaving behind a small contingent to help train Iraqi forces and to fight terrorism. Obama has been calling for a surge in Afghanistan since February to snuff out the insurgency there as well as across the Pakistan border. The Pentagon has now agreed with Obama. McCain has only now agrred that a surge in Afghanistan is needed, but McCain is afraid to root out Al Qaeda and the Taliban just barely across the Pakistan border. Obama will make every effort to negotiate a peaceful and productive resolution to Iran's nuclear energy ambitions before resorting to more forceful measures. McCain demands military action against Iran. They agree on nothing. McCain also wants to place a missile defense shield in Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia to protect western europe from the evil empire of the Soviet Union. lol

Answer 8

Great question. What Iraqi people. 250,000 left to avoid the civil war in Iraq. 650,000 civilians are dead. You are correct in that Iraq will not ever be a Democracy, they hate Democracy, always have and always will. You are also correct in that we should mind our own bussiness and let Iraq stand or fall on it's own feet. Freedom is not a gift to be given, it can not be installed. Those that want it must be willing to die for it. Everyone knows that.

Answer 9

Great question. The problem is that we're dealing with an old world people. They have hatreds and history of incidents for thousands of years. They don't see our logic. Pride and vengeance are the most important thing to them. Their religious leaders don't try to see them through this, they foster more of it. It's good for attendance, oops it's mandatory- no thinking.
I call it mass lobotomization of the peoples in those kind of countries. What an indictment of some of mankind.
So we think, while they fester with hatred.

Answer 10

Yes, the Iraqi's have to step up and take control of their own destiny.