Can i be sacked whilst off for depression?

Question

The obvious answer to the question is no but let me give a bit of background. Last year I was off for depression, came back too soon and was generally incompetant and I committed what could have been considered gross misconduct (misuse of computer facilities and sending personal internal emails to people who had ditched me due to my depression asking why they did what they did, which they complained about calling it harrassment). On the eve of a nervous breakdown work suspended me. Four months later I felt a little better and they invited me back for a disciplinary. I went to the first meeting and I broke down and the symptoms returned but twice as bad. I physically can't go back to the office because of panic attacks, memory loss etc. I'm being asked about things I can't really remember at all and I don't know what to do.

If I'm signed off work because of this, can I legally be sacked? If I'm sacked I'm not sure what I'll do to myself and I'm incredibly scared.

I should add before I'm hung drawn and quatered here that I'm not out to sue work or anything like that. My depression was due to a culmination of very serious issues that I simply couldn't deal with because I'd bottled them up.

I shouldn't have come back to work, but when you're at home for a couple of months you don't know how overwhelming it would be. When I got back work were threatening with being off sick for too long so I had to force myself to come in.

I'm not a coward, afraid to deal with what I've done - I will take it on the chin in any other circumstance. However I'm just wondering whether, if I'm like this and if I get signed off, will they be able to do anything during the sickness period? If they do it afterwards, fine - but I'm thinking about during.

Answer 1

Hang on, steady yourself, and try to calm down a little.

This is so similar to the way I have been treated on more than one occasion, and aslo due to similar circumstances, so believe me, I do understand exactly what you are saying.

Let me try and explain a little about what happened to me.

For obvious reasons I can't be too specific, as I can't name the companies I worked for, but I'll try to be as near to the real situation as I can.

I have suffered from clinical depression for over 20 years, and up until recently I have always managed to stay in full time paid employment.

Like you, for a variety of reasons at one point my depression severely worsened and I was signed off work with medical notes to back this up. Also like you I found that people who had been sympathetic and helpful began to back off and didn't want to help me or be associated with me anymore.

As is quite common with depression, the person who suffers sees this as very personal to them, and they want to know why things have changed so dramatically. I was the same, and did the same kind of things that you did. I was not accused of harrasment though, but things did change with my immediate managers.

I was no longer seen as someone who could be helped, or understood. I was asked why help that had been offered by them and also support I was receiving from the NHS and elsewhere wasn't seeming to help, and why I wasn't getting better.

It was then that things got much worse. I was put into disciplinary procedures, which I had been promised wouldn't happen, and suddenly I felt as though I was trying to justify myself and my illness.

Most large companies have these procedures, and cynically, I view them more as being there to make it appear that they are doing the right things, legally, and not necessarily for the good of employees. My own personal opinion....

Because I didn't appear to them to be getting better, and according to them I was casuing problems to others who I worked with these procedures soon went from informal to stage 1 and then the 2nd stage.

I like you was at my wits end and scared of what would happen, but while also being too ill to really care all that much. I did not believe that it was possible to be dismissed if you were submitting legitimate sick notes from a GP. But when things were getting progressively more serious I decided to check out my contract.

The contract, along with sickness procedures clearly stated that if after prolonged periods of illness, it can be seen that the employer has done all in their power to help, support and offer assistance to the employee, then they can choose to end the contract of employment.

It doesn't seem fair, but this seems to be pretty standard stuff in the big organisations, companies and the public sector.

By this time I had gone off sick again, as I was convinced that I was being constantly watched for the slightest wrong thing that I said or did, so that it could be used against me as a way of getting rid of me.

Not surprisingly I went off sick again. During that time I got advice from my union, my GP, my psychiatrist and anyone else I thought might be able to offer help.

In the end, with the help and support of my local Mind association

http://www.mind.org.uk/Mind+in+your+area/

I decided that I would never be able to return to work at this place, but more importantly that my health was worth much more than a job.

I never went back to work. The union helped me to get out of the situation without them having to sack me, and me having to hand in my notice. I didn't want either of those things to spoil any chance of future employment. I also got an agreement that I would be provided with a reference.

Sorry, if this isn't what you wanted to hear. And also to those rather naive people, like I used to be, that believe if you are genuinely ill then there is no way you can lose your job because of it. Unfortunately that isn't the case and companies always seem to have a way round problem employees, as they see them.

I know that DDA and all that kind of thing are supposed to protect people with disabilities, but as long as the company are seen to be doing all they can, they don't really have to do that much. And certainly they do not have to have any understanding at all.

Mental Health is one of the biggest causes of ill health, 1 in 4 of us WILL suffer some kind of mental illness during our lifetime.

As a sufferer I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, or even previous employers who have caused me, at times, to become even more ill due to the way I have been dealt with.

Perhaps it is time that you look at yourself, your job and your life and make the decision to choose your health over being employed.

Yes it is difficult, especially financially but benefits are available, you need to apply for DLA (Disability Living Allowance) which helps boost how much you can claim.

Do you have a union you could seek help from? Even if you aren't a member now, you can ask for advice and start paying subs now so that they can represent you.

I've received more help and support from my local Mind than from anywhere else, and I'm passionate about how they do this and the service they offer. Please get in contact with one near you as soon as you can.

www.mind.org.uk

Since making the decision to leave that job I spent a lot of time doing voluntary work for the dop-in centre that I used so much to help me. I then was able to apply for and get a job some months ago.

I went from a problem employee for one company to now being a support worker for others suffering from poor mental health. A total career change that I wouldn't ever have believed possible.

I can use my own experiences to help others, and that makes me feel glad that what I have endured can at least be put to use in a positive way.

I've had clients and also friends who have been in similar circumstances, and again it seems to be the ill employee who loses out in the end, and the companies who have done everything they possibly could! In the end the people who are suffering all seem relieved to be out of difficult situations and so things don't get highlighted or talked about.

Also, companies get employees who leave to sign "compromise agreements" which state that all parties cannot take any futher action, or be seen to accuse in any way the other of bad practice, or anything inappropriate.

Hence my being wary of saying too much, or indicating who these companies are.

Don't carry on suffering, you clearly need to get out of this bad situation so that you can concentrate on your own health and coming to some kind of acceptance, and begin your road to recovery.

Looking back now, I can see that it was the best thing that ever happened to me, and it has enabled me and empowered me to be what I am today.

I hope this answers your question, and that you will see that there is a way out for you, even if it isn't the one you would have expected!!

Good luck, stay strong, and start to believe that you are worth much more than you are being led to believe by your current employers.

Don't give up hope of having a job - just realise that there is probably, at some point in the future, one that is much more suitable for you.

Take care
x

Answer 2

I you are in the UK you need to contact ACAS (www.acas.co.uk) - they will give you free advice - they have a website too so have a look at that. If you can afford it, perhaps havea consultation with an employment solicitor - they will usually give you an initial meeting for free. Take any paperwork you have from your employer and your employer's handbook and employment contract if you have them. Your employer's grievance procedure should be outlined clearly in your employee manual/handbook. Now to you, please do not be scared - hold onto the fact that you will get through this. Start to write things down in a pad - when you are emotional, anxious and drepressed you will not remember anything so you must make notes. Perhaps you should consider another job - this would give you a new start which may make you feel more positive about the future (you do not give the cause for your depression - was it work?). That way, you may be able to come to an agreement with your employer where they can offer you time to find another job (within reason of course) and agree on a reference. There is always help out there - contact ACAS or a solicitor to find out your rights first. Good luck.

Answer 3

First of all, try to get some professional help for your depression, your medical benefits may cover this. Most larger employers are leery of wrongful termination issues and won't sack for health related issues, but the other performance and abuse of company equipment and time issues you brought up could very reasonably be used to terminate you.
I know it's hard to take care of yourself when depressed, but are you eating right, exersizing, drinking plenty of WATER and sleeping enough? Just taking care of those physical things (which can take a lot of work and focus when depressed) will help. Also, keep your home and car clean, that will make a big difference too. I've beaten depression more than once without meds, I've given advice on this numerous times (very very long) feel free to go back a two to five months ago in my answers and you'll find it.
The most important advice I can offer is to take good care of yourself physically, keep your environment clean and THINK POSITIVELY.

Answer 4

Yes,

At this point I would strongly consider looking for another job.
The company you work for is required to give you a chance to return to work over a decent time interval (a time as defined by the company itself). It has been a decent time interval and when you returned you had a breakdown, clearly showing that you are not ready to come back to work yet.

At this point I think that staying with the company is the worst thing you can do. If you returned and then had a breakdown then that was bad, but now if you return again they are going to start asking you questions that you can't deal with. This is only going to increase your chance for having yet another breakdown.

It would be better for your mental health if you made a clean break. When you interview for the next job you can say that conditions were so bad at your last job that you had a mental breakdown. Which can explain a bad reference, and will be the truth. Tell you new potential employer that you want to make a clean break and start over. You have been gone from work for four months and now you just want to get back to work and put this entire episode behind you.

Answer 5

You should talk with your union rep if you haven't one join one. I don't think you can be sacked for depression, but you can be sacked for a poor sick record. Maybe you should talk to your job about your problem with depression get someone to go with you,tell them that your getting professional help and trying to sort the problem but your getting better and would appreciate there support. You'll still have to sort out the disciplinary issue first though its a formal procedure and can't be over looked, you can't and your job can't forget about this issue just because you suffer from depression,although they may be more lenient. You need to be brave and face up to it mate its your life .It may not be as bad as you think. Best of luck.

Answer 6

No you cant ,but they could still get round it some other way and it would be hard for you to prove this.
Lets be honest is it really going to work you going back, it will just keep aggravating the condition .
Why don't you take this as an opportunity to reinvent your self and aim for a new target in life .
Ive been in your shoes and this is what I did its not easy but at least your moving fore ward instead of been stuck in a rut you cant climb out of :)
Good look with what ever you decide !!

Answer 7

The obvious answer maybe no but the real one is yes - you can be sacked while off for depression or any other reason, although if you are registered disabled they have to make further provisions but you could still be sacked.

Answer 8

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Answer 9

Sounds like you need to start looking after YOU, instead of pushing yourself to the limits. Save face, resign from your job, rather than waiting around to see wether they will sack you, it is only adding to any stress you are feeling. Why not take time out, give yourself chance to get really well and then look for another job. Money may be tight but your health is everything. Good luck.

Answer 10

I think you need to seek medical advice and fast, you talk about not being able to go back to work but then you dont want to get sacked. Maybe get yourself sorted then see how you feel. You could get the sack for gross misconduct though. Get a sick note, get medical help for your depression then find another job.

Answer 11

that's very interesting Daniel m but most company's allow you only a certain time of work whilst sick then they can terminate your employment are you saying because this poor person is suffering mental health issues they can never be sacked, i ask this question with personal interest as my sister in law is currently on long term sick with the same problems.