A question for Pagans and Neo-Pagans.?

Question

what are your thoughts on the following?

Personal blood letting.

Animal sacrifice.

Menstrual blood usage?

Scourging.

Drinking/using other substances to achieve "ecstasy".

Also, have you done any of the things, and if so, how?

Personally, I've blood let, scourged, and have drank myself to weird states of consciousness, for spiritual reasons. If I had a way to get a permit, and an animal, I would also be willing to sacrifice it.

I also want to be clear, I mean this in the context of worship, not magic.

NOTE: This is not normal Pagan behavior. Do not freak out if you have a Pagan neighbor.

EDIT: Also, human sacrifice.

Personally, if I could get away with it, and had a good reason, I would. But I'm weird.

To Jerry, It dosen't. I never said it did.

However, the things up there I can ddo show a certain level of submission to the Gods. I do not like hurting myself, infact, I try to avoid it. I manage to do it, because I'm serious.

Kallan:

It's quite alright. In regards to the substance bit, I do it as a ritual to Dionysus; who is bringer of the ecstasy were we become ourselves. Nothing ends a night like getting completely hammered, and offering devotions to Dionysus.

Answer 1

Blood possesses spiritual and life giving energies that are very powerful, and very sacred to the gods. This means that blood is one of the most valuable offerings to the Gods. In accordance with this belief, I practice auto-sacrifice, the giving of my own blood in sacrifice. I do this responsibly, and it is within my right to do so. This has nothing to do with slashing, evil cults, psychosis, or anything else of the sort. Practically every religion in the world, including Christianity and European forms of Paganism, has held beliefs that suffering pain in some form can be a sacred act. I am serious about my religion and do not shun such ideas in preference for my own comfort, nor do I disregard them simply because "we know better now." I believe there are deep truths here, that modern society doesn't "know better," it has simply forgotten.

The concept of sacrifice is a vital portion of my spiritual path. This does not mean that I sacrifice people, because I don't. But what it does mean is that I believe that the idea of giving up something vital and valuable to the gods is important, and also that being willing to endure pain for the Gods is an act of piety and devotion. I do not believe that this is something humanity has "evolved" beyond, or that the Gods "don't really want," as some Neo-Pagans would put it. I don't believe the Gods are warm and fuzzy, at least not the gods I worship. "Sacrificing" is really about what the Aztecs called "nextlaoaliztli," something which has been translated by some as "debt payment," but which most literally means "giving that which is right/deserved." The gods are not simply here to serve humans, and so it is only right to give what They enjoy to show my reverence, my gratitude, and my appreciation. In my beliefs, sacrifice must be given purely (rather than simply in hopes of getting your way), and must consist of things of true value. To possess "true value" means that what is given must be something that is valuable to the Gods, not simply what is convenient for me to give. If you offer blood to an Aztec deity, you will get their attention, and very strongly so. It is also instantly useful and inherently valuable to Them. Other offerings may hold sentimental or traditional value, and there are offerings that have more specific uses to certain deities. But blood is the most quintessential and universally valued of offerings possible to give to the Aztec Gods in this day and age. Even in historical times, blood was second only to the heart itself. Giving blood has a meaning to these deities that is clear, immediate, and deep. They know what it means when a mortal gives their blood; it is thus up to the devotee to understand what it truly means, because if any confusion is to be had, it will be on their part. The Gods do not misunderstand, and they will come into the process assuming that you do not misunderstand it either. The act of offering the blood through burning or other means seals the bond. Spiritually speaking, the blood is the essence of your life, and the gods take this into themselves when it is offered. The Aztecs believed that the blood contained traces of the teyolia soul, and so the sacrifice gives what is no less important than a portion of the soul itself.

On the topic of human sacrifice: In reality, no, I will not sacrifice you. In fantasy, perhaps.Many of my Gods enjoy sexual energy as well as blood, and there's no reason the two can't be combined at times. I have used sex as a substitute for death in rituals. Some of this takes a decidedly interesting turn. ;)

Answer 2

Personal blood letting: I have no problems with it. But its not really my cup of tea because I don't fancy the idea of cutting myself.

Animal sacrifice: Not a problem at all. In fact when I go hunting, that's what I do. For example, when I hunt deer I will dedicate my kill to the Gods and have like a "scared barbecue" in the form of a blot. No part of the critter is wasted though, it's cooked and eaten in a feast. I don't believe in eating a living creature unless I am the one who hunted it and killed it and prepared it. I think all too often people are disconnected with their source of food. Hence why I don't buy meat from supermarkets or restaurants. Not all Asatruars practice animal sacrifice nor is it a requirement. It is a personal, practical decision. Where I live, going hunting is normal.

Menstrual blood usage: I have no problems if others want to do this, it's not something I'd do however because of the "yuck factor".

Scourging: Hehe, not something I'd do for religious practices. But I have no problems if other people wanted to do that.

Drinking/using other substances to achieve "ecstasy": I'm all for it for religious purposes. My chose of drink would be mead. And, err, there are other substances that can be used to alter one's consciousness. I don't have problems with them either.

EDIT: Human sacrifice? That's not something I have ever done nor do I plan on doing it. Killing without government sanction is unquestionably illegal; in addition to which, the least whiff of a religion's possible willingness to commit human sacrifice is more likely than anything to cause an hysterical public reaction against it.

That being said, assuming I was a soldier in wartime I probably would hallow of the slain to Óðinn before the battle. Because in my mind there is no reason why a soldier today could not "promise all the souls he ejected from their bodies...to Óðinn." Such a hallowing, carried out before the battle, should turn the warrior's awareness to the awesome and terrible nature of the killing s/he expects to carry out, and call forth Óðinn's aid in it.

Answer 3

Personal blood letting? Sure, go for it, if you want. I'm none too keen on poking or cutting myself, but I have done so before once or twice in a magical setting. It's powerful in that use, though - not something for everyday use. I know a number of folks who donate blood to the Red Cross as a religious observance, so I don't see any issue with it, but don't do so myself.

Same feelings for menstrual blood, though lacking the specific body parts, that's not something I can do. ;)

Animal sacrifice doesn't bother me, so long as it's done safely and humanely. My preference would be to do so while hunting or fishing, though any farmer who raises their own animals would be fine as well. I'm most used to situations where the animal is sanctified, humanely slaughtered, and then eaten, which I don't see a problem with. I understand that a few folks still do the whole "burnt offering" thing, but I'm not as keen on that. I haven't participated in that (outside of a single lobster dinner), but would under certain circumstances.

Human sacrifice is a touchy situation. Suffice to say, I can see situations where it could be used to balance out injustice - such as the execution of a criminal for capital offenses - but since I'm not involved in the legal system, I'm going to have to pass on this one. Likewise, I can see how, if I were a soldier, I might want to sanctify a battle - but, again, not in tha situation.

Willing scourging, while not my cup o' tea, seems perfectly fine. Whether hard or light (token), lashing can induce altered states of consciousness. So, while I'm not likely to do it, I wouldn't blink twice if I heard someone else was doing it. Unless they were being too noisy. ;)

I'm a bit too much of a self-control freak to let loose with the use of mind-altering substances. I understand that there's quite a history for using mead or other alcohols in that scenario, and might eventually do so,but it's not something I've done yet.

As a Reconstructionist, I'm somewhat more at ease with some of the elements that existed in the Ancient's practices. I might not practice them myself, and might not be sure they serve a modern purpose - but I tend to be a lot more relaxed in discussing them.

Answer 4

As a Wiccan, I choose to abide by the Wiccan Rede ("If you harm none, do what you will"); this means that I would find personal bloodletting generally unacceptable, and animal sacrifice totally unacceptable, in my own religious practice. There are circumstances where I could see using my own blood in a rite, but considering how profound an energy tie that would create between myself and whatever spell I was performing, the circumstances would have to be pretty dire.

Menstrual blood usage? Someone could if they wanted to, of course, but considering that it's essentially a waste product from the body, I'd question why they wouldn't also use urine in their rites. Also, since it's a product of a failure to conceive, I'd find its connection to fertility magic dodgy at best.

Scourging is used in certain Traditions of Wicca (Gardnerians and Alexandrians in particular), but primarily in a symbolic way -- as opposed to certain shamanic practices where the inflicting of pain causes the body to release endorphins, thus leading to an ecstatic trance state. I would not engage in this myself, but recognize that it is a viable technique to achieve that particular end.

Using various substances to achieve ecstasy... heh. I want to face the Gods and any spellworking I undertake with as clear a mind as possible, so no, I wouldn't do that either.

And thank you for the qualifier that what you are proposing is not "normal" Pagan behavior (although some parts of it are practiced in various forms of Paganism, with the almost universal exception of animal sacrifice outside of a hunting context). It's appreciated.

Answer 5

Blood letting - no.
Animal Sacrifice - I hunt but for meat - not worship or magic purposes. I say a blessing for the animal but did not hunt it to obtain the blessing.
Menstrual blood - no.
Scourging - no
Substances - I have had alcohol for recreation but not as part of any of my spiritualism.

About the closest I have come to pain for spirituality is most of my tattoos have a spiritual significance to me.

You seem to have a need to inflict pain on yourself, and perhaps animals as well..That is not normal Pagan behavior. That is not normal behavior for any grouping. I think you should do some re-evaluation of why you like to do these things.

Answer 6

I never did bloodletting. I always found those who had done it had bad side-effects surrounding them.

Animal sacrifice is crappy and doesn't accomplish anything.

Menstrual blood usage can be good for fertility rituals, but considering the fact I'm male...

Scourging is nasty and is usually a trait of punishment among a minority of underground left-hand path organizations.

There's nothing wrong with drinking other substances to acheive a certain state of mind, so long as one does not drink anything toxic. (Using belladonna for astral projection preparation, for example, is stupid).

I've not performed any of those. LOL

Answer 7

I am wiccan, and not neo anything. As for Video games, I see no problem with them not even world of warcraft. My son and I have sat in the same room while he played the game. We have talked about it. He knows it is not real and is able to figure the games out within the day. It can be fun and good mental exercise, especially the RPG's. He knows which ones are ok and which are too violent or sexually explicit. He doesn't play those.

Answer 8

I don't believe in sacrificing an animal to anything. They have just as much right to live as I do.
If someone wants to use their own blood for a rite, that's their business.
I also believe that scourging is harmful and serves no useful purpose.

I also don't believe the gods/goddesses require that of us anyway.

I believe that using herbs, potions, et al for the purpose of achieving another spiritual state is a cop-out.. we're lazy by nature, so we take the easy road instead of the one that will bring more satisfaction. (my personal opinion, if someone else does it, that's their business)

I'm also a believer in keeping one's personal worship and magic to themselves for many reasons. Therefore, if I had done any of those things, I wouldn't be discussing them in an open forum.

This is in no way a judgment on you or your practices.. these are my own personal beliefs, and I wish you the very best of blessings on your path.

Answer 9

You are so right that this is not normal Pagan behavior! I think you are one warped individual! If you feel the need to sacrifice an animal get a hunting permit and ONLY kill if you need the meat for sustenance. As far as I know there are NO Goddesses or Gods that would condone harming an animal or person in worship. That is archaic Christianity (or Druidism).

Answer 10

1)okay
2)not ok (i love animals)
3) easyier than cutting yourself
4) what this
5)not me personally but okay other wise

and the human one id go for it