When will christians understand the difference between belief and knowledge?

Question

It happens all the time here, christians talk about atheists questioning their beliefs or accussing us of being closet believers.

Don't they understand that by definition, an atheist is devoid of beliefs?

Instead we rely on knowledge and reasoning based on logic and evidence.

Creationism is a belief

God is the product of belief

Evolution is knowledge based on evidence.

Understanding that when you die you are dead is also the product of knowledge. It is absurd, given the observable evidence, to suggest that such a stand point is a "belief"

To suggest that we secretly believe in God and turn to him in a crisis is just laughable.

Answer 1

Claiming something is not something is a belief. You are misunderstanding the nature of knowledge, i.e., epistemology.

Here is a good place to start:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/religion-epistemology/

Answer 2

I am christian but not all that religious either - I have strong beliefs but I still listen to what others have to say and even if I don't believe it I at least want to understand their point of view. I believe in some sort of afterlife and I believe that there is a higher power but I don't claim to know what it is exactly either - I think the bible is fine but as I said before I think most of it has been lost in translation and has been changed and rearranged through the years - I KNOW that 1 +1 = 2 and I BELIEVE that there is a god - I know the difference as far as that goes. I am not one of those people that pretend to have all the answers but I see nothing wrong in having beliefs and faith... I must be tired I am rambling - I better get to bed. G'night

Answer 3

Atheist to atheist, you're wrong about us not having beliefs. Ninety-nine percent of what anyone "knows" is more accurately described as "belief". I, personally, have never seen any physical evidence of the existence of the Spanish Armada. Nor can I prove through pure logic that it existed. And yet, I really do think it did, in fact, exist.

I also believe that it is wrong to kill somebody (with certain qualifications, e.g. self-defense, military action, etc.). I can in no way back this up with logic (unless you want to try using Kantian theories of the Categorical Imperative), nor can I prove that it is wrong. I should certainly hope that you too think that it's wrong (and if you can prove logically that it is, I'd love to hear how).

Sure, the Christians and people of other faiths take a greater leap than I do. That doesn't diminish the fact that I, too, believe things on authority, and sometimes even just by gut feeling. That doesn't make me foolish. It makes me human. So for Pete's sake, if someone calls you a closet believer, just don't listen. Never bothered me a bit.

Answer 4

First off your argument is flawed.

evidence is the product of observation...
observation is a product of belief...

or how about this

life/self/world/perception is a belief
atheism is a product of belief...

so to believe in nothing denies your own existence, and if that were the case... knowledge is a product of belief etc etc...

Two
read Nietzsche

three
Evolution is knowledge based on evidence?
You should really study up on the history of science and the history of knowledge... you might be surprised.

four
a theory can not be used to disprove a theory... also a science can never be used to prove creation.

five
Read Nietzsche

six
who cares philosophy is BS and a waste of time anyways... just live life and quit being a whinny little *****.

Answer 5

Faith in God is a belief, I agree, but it also is based on knowledge. There is more than a little scientific and historical evidence pointing to a creator than most will look at or admit.
Evolution is a belief also based on very little testable, repeatable, falsifiable evidence, no more evidence than the evidence for a creator, in my opinion, and it requires its own faith to believe in it. People act as if science has proven evolution to a degree that it is as definitive as Gravity. It has not, it cannot explain the origin of life, it cannot explain the Big Bang or what started it. I watched a lecture on the hypothesis of the Big Bang last week, and they say it started with nothing, then suddenly there was this intense light. Sounds like Genesis 1 to me.
Why do people that do not believe always act as if all Christians are under educated, ignorant fools?

Answer 6

From religion point of view: Catholic church never close its doors for gay. She doesn't even ask gay people to change their sexual orientation. But, when it comes to marriage, the rule speaks and I don't think that the rule will change in the near future. Now, it's the turn to ask their tolerance to the the church's rule. Hold on the argument that being gay is not wrong in the first place, so there's nothing to tolerate. No matter whether it's right or wrong, in the beginning the church see it as "wrong". Changing the mindset from being wrong to neutral, shows that the Church has learned how to tolerate. From my point of view: Personally, I have nothing to do against gay marriage. When we talk about marriage I think love is the most important. As long as both parties agree, it shouldn't be a problem.

Answer 7

Yeah. It's a little hard to believe in nothing. Do you believe you are alive? Just as you stated above...an atheist is devoid of beliefs. So, I assume you neither have faith or belief that you are alive. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God. Creation is belief, Believing that God created things. A book tells us so. It isn't just a far fetched theory that took billions and billions of years to come about and for some far fetched, or unknown reasons, things changed. Please, do yourself a favor and read "Tornado In A Junkyard" by James Perloff. I can look around and see that things didn't come about by just chance. This isn't all just an accident. or just the way the chips fell. Yes. When a person dies they are dead. I know of no one that disputes that. Jesus died BUT rose from the dead, and many people saw it. True, the BODY dies BUT the SPIRIT lives on. To think that this present life is as good as it is ever going to get doesn't cut it. To believe in, have faith in, and trust in nothing is just what it will give you....nothing. We honor, give thanks, thust in, believe in, have faith in, God. We have everything to gain. I don't think that you secretly believe in God. I think you secretly wonder if your (faith?, belief? knowledge?) is actual, really 100% factual and beyond the shadow of doubt, true. Maybe, just maybe, you wonder "what if they are right? What's going to happen to me? Don't take this as a threat, because it isn't. Take it as a hope that you will come to salvation-faith, trust, belief in God and the way of forgiveness & eternal life.

Answer 8

You contradicted yourself when you said that you were devoid of beliefs. The fact that you are still alive proves that you at least believe that life is worth living. You believe in thinking don't you? How about feelings like fear, grief, guilt, or happiness? Are they real or just products of your imagination? What about imagination, so you believe in that? The only logical choice for someone who has no beliefs is why bother none of it matters anyway.

Answer 9

Wrong. God is not a product
of belief. God is based on evidence.
You get that evidence in Christ.
Looking for proof will not get you
into Christ.This is the reason it was
very important not to get rid of that
measure of faith that God gives
everyone.

Answer 10

Everynight I see you on here trying to doubt what I already know to be fact. Why would God reveal himself to everybody? What would that accomplish? I have no idea why God chooses to reveal himself to some and not others, you should ask him. See; I have proof, but it is between God and I and I spent a lifetime searching for it. You and I are no different, infact I can tell you really want to know the truth because the subject seems to fascinate you.

Answer 11

They won't... Christianity discourages the practice of freethought. I'm not saying that be snarky... it's the truth. As far as they are concerned, belief IS knowledge. Belief vs. Fact is irrelevant.