Do you think spay/neuter contracts from breeders are fair?

Question

I absolutely DO NOT think spay/neuter contracts are fair. Once you buy the puppy, it is YOUR puppy. That is why you pay the breeder for the puppy. I think most of the time spay/neuter contracts have to do with the greed of the breeders. They don't want you to make a profit off of their dogs unless they are making part of that profit. Show contracts also seem to be mostly about greed, as do breeding rights contracts.

The only contract that seems fair is one that says you will return the dog to the breeder if you cannot take care of it. But unless the breeder is willing to pay you for the dog you are returning, that contract is not fair either, because you could always sell the dog to a responsible person.

IMO, you cannot let the breeder call all the shots. Afterall, YOU are the one paying for the puppy.

Opinions?

Answer 1

I absolutely agree. My mom used to raise dogs - we always sold our dogs with full registrations and no spray/neuter contracts. It is YOUR dog - you should be able to choose whether or not you want to bred.

I also disagree with limited registrations. This means that if you have a AKC dog you cannot register any puppies you have. This is ALL about greed. Breeders (especially show breeders) are a very cliquey bunch. They don't welcome outsiders easily - or at all. They view everyone as competition. It's worse than high school.

The AKC and general breeder opinion is that you are not a "responsible" breeder if you do not do these things. However, with what people invest in their dogs, it is criminal IMHO to have these contracts.

The only exception I can see is if the dog's health would be in danger to breed (e.g. an ingunial hernia). Then they might be justisfied just to cover their own "a".

By the way - it's good that there weren't these contracts when these breeds were being developed - otherwise we would not have any of them.

And to the poster who stated that you should show until championship - my mother had a beautiful collie that was confirmation standard. She got such a cold shoulder from the show community who she looked to in order to get started she never got past her first few shows, even though her pup had won many "fun" matches. The want to was definately there - and who the "h" are you to judge my committment to my dog, anyway?

Answer 2

I disagree. Most responsible breeders who are making you sign a spay-neuter contract are doing it because the puppy you picked is "pet quality" and has no reason to be bred. They are trying to not contribute to the delinquency of the breed. Other puppies, the more expensive ones, they consider "show quality" and are not sold on a s/n contract - but instead they have a contract that they you need to make sure the dog is available for show training etc, and they may use the dog as a sire or dam for a new litter, if they end up being a great example of the breed. People who choose to buy these dogs have a commitment greater to the breeder than simply getting the dog fixed. I do agree though, that if you are dealing with a BYB, they may want a contract so you can't make money off their puppy. However in this case you could probably not spay the animal and there's nothing they can do because they dog care enough to follow up if they are selling hundreds of puppies.

Why would a good breeder not put you must return the dog to them? If you have a female dog you loved who had puppies wouldn't you cherish the puppies as well? If my dog could have puppies I know I would want to know where all the little Foxy's were, and if they were doing well. In many cases, if you talk to the breeder and have found a good home the breeder will have no objection to you giving the dog to that person, as long as they know its a good home.

If you want to breed the puppy you "bought" or "sell" it later, then just buy a puppy from a pet store. Why buy from a responsible breeder if you want to do irresponsible things with the puppy?

Answer 3

1) You can find another breeder that won't be so particular about the spay/neuter contract. 2) You can "re-word" the spay/neuter contract the breeder has. It could say something like, "After 2 years and (name a number) of trial wins, I have the right to breed this dog with another dog of the same breed and with the same number of wins. I agree not to breed the dog more than (name a number) and never to any other breed but Belgian Terrier. Yes. When you enter into a contract - you have to follow it. So, yes. She gets to tell you what to do with your dog. Just like she's your mother. No. You don't have any right to decide against what's written in the contract. Sure, you bought the dog, but it's not like buying a toaster. The dog is the product of someone's blood sweat and tears. That breeder has put thousands of THEIR own money into your dog. These days, reputation is everything. If you take their dog, breed it to crap and pass off all the puppies under the kennel name - that blows back on them and all their future breedings. Bringing dogs into this world is an incredible responsibility. They're dying in shelters by the millions. So when you decide to have a litter, it's a big deal. You want the best for all the puppies for their whole lives. Think about it. 7 puppies that all live 15 years. That's a heck of a lot of responsibility. In my opinion, there should be MORE breeders that care this much.

Answer 4

You may not think it's fair, but you will not get a puppy from me without one unless the dog is of show and breeding quality.
I am entirely committed to breeding the best possible dogs, and to that end demand that anything of pet quality be spayed or neutered. Unless you are known in the breed, it can be very difficult to even obtain a show quality dog in some breeds. Selling to novice owners is a risk we breeders take in hopes that their puppy will end up in a loving forever home from the start. For this reason, we may even recommend a certain puppy in a litter for you. We want the pup to fit in with your family and lifestyle. We do not want the pup to turn into your newest source of income.
We breeders seldom make money from our breeding. We certainly are not out to prevent you from making money, but we do not wish for our breed, and in particular, our dogs, to be the victim of unscrupulous breeding by amateurs that have no clue as to proper breed type, correct anatomy, and ideal temperament.
If a breeder sells you a pet dog, then that is exactly what you are buying. No more, no less. Pet quality, no matter what you pay, is still pet quality, and no amount of money is going to turn that pup into a world beating show dog. Pet quality dogs should NOT be bred, no matter how tempting it may be. In order to preserve the good qualities in a breed, breeding must be done selectively and with a great deal of knowlege and foresight.

As for being able to return the dog and get a refund of the purchase price, exactly how do you think this would work? Let's say you keep the dog a few years, and then decide it's too much work, or for some other reason you decide not to keep the dog. In the interveneing years, you've had the pleasure of the dogs company, and the dog is healthy. However, you've kept the dog mostly outdoors and it is not entirely trustworthy in the house. Neither has the dog had any obedience or other training. You really think the breeder should give you a refund for this animal? Rather like buying a new car, not caring for it, banging it up a bit and then taking it back to the dealership for a refund with a hundred thousand miles. Good luck with that.

My contracts give me right of first refusal, which means before placing the dog, you must contact me. The primary reason for this type of contract is so that I end up in a position to help you place the dog, either by taking it back or by helping to find a suitable new home. If a puppy is returned within a few weeks of purchase, I will most likely offer your money back. If it's been a few years, then probably not.

Contracts may also spell out guarantees of proper health and temperament. If the dog you bought does not meet the criteria and you have followed all the correct steps in ensuring the puppy was raised properly, most will buy the dog back from you, or replace it with another if any are available.

How much you pay for the dog has no bearing on your "right" to breed or your "right" to your money back when you get tired of your dog. You pay what the dog is worth to you. You will spend many times the purchase price over the dog's lifetime. Since when does this give you a right to breed and make money back from the dog? Your dog is your pet, your companion, your guardian, your staunchest supporter. That should be enough.

Answer 5

A responsible breeder knows what puppies should be used in a breeding program and which ones shouldn't.They know which ones can add back to the breed and which ones won't. It has absolutely nothing ot do with greed and certainly not with making a profit. Responsible breeders do nOT make a profit from breeding. Any money they do make goes right back into the dogs. Responsible breeders have the health, temperament, breed standard in mind when they breed. Also unless someone is experienced in a particular breed a responsible breeder does want a dog just bred willy nilly to just any registered dog of questionable health, temperament, etc. Responsible breeders work very hard to maintain proper health, breed standard, temeprament and it can very quickly be ruined by even jsut one irresponsible person.

You may be paying for a puppy but you are also paying for the breeders reputation and hard work and dedication to the breed.

Answer 6

Yup, I have an opinion...

There are FAR too many unwanted pets out there, by signing a spay/neuter contract, you are promising not to add to that problem.

Also lots of times a dog is sold on a spay/neuter contract because it is very obviously a pet, and should not be bred. Why would someone buy a pet quality and want to breed it? Tell me how that would make the breed better?

It's also possible that the breeder thinks you might make a good pet owner but you don't have what it takes to learn, to be a good quality breeder.

It might seem unfair that the dog must be returned to the breeder if you can't keep it . BUT the breeder has more resources, more likely able to find a good home for the dog.. More people maybe looking for a older dog, or one that is returned because someone didn't train it etc.
You would have to take an add out in the paper, or post it at work, or would post it at YAHOO Answers, and possibly not properly find a suitable home for the dog. The breeder is in a better position, more knowledgable and ready to rehome their own dogs. Not only does this keep the breeder's dogs out of the shelter, and breed rescue, it helps to keep tabs on them, and keeps them from being sold to puppy mills or other unsavoury types... But it also saves you the time, effort and money to try and find a suitable home for the dog.

If you don't like the rules, buy a dog from someone else. There are millions of puppy mills out there that don't require you sign a contract and there are millions of backyard breeders that don't ever want to see their dogs back. Thanks your lucky starts that you found someone that cares about their dogs to do the right thing from the start.

We have our puppies spayed/neutered (if they are sold as pets) when their ears are cropped. Bet you don't like that either.. But it is the RESPONSIBLE thing to do! I love the dogs and care about where they are and where they end up and I know that people who are interested in trying to breed a crappy Backyard bred litter, they know up front that they can't do it with one of my dogs. I care about my dogs and their offspring and I insist on knowing where they are and who is doing what with them. Not only that, I do want my dogs to come back to me, so I can properly find them a good suitable home.

Answer 7

Reputable breeders know that when you buy this particular puppy that is does not need to be bred. It is not a " perfect " example of the breed or it may have hidden structural flaws that will show up in their offspring. ( like an overbite etc )
These will all get you thrown out of the show ring. So the repsonible thing to do is spay/nueter the pup and keep it as a pet.
Same goes for whether or not the pup is show quality. A reputable breeder knows that this pup could go to the show ring and win.
PETS should all be spayed or nuetered. There is a big difference in the show quality and pet quality.

So I don't think the breeder is trying to make more money they just know their dogs and want to make sure that the buyer is being responsible with the pup.
The contract is signed BEFORE you buy so you have the right to terminate the buying process at that point- before it is your dog.

Answer 8

I absolutly think this is fair and the most ethical of practices!

Breeders do this so that idiots cannot soil thier good lineages with bad breeding practices, poor quality dogs are not introduced to the world contributing to over population, and their dogs are insured a longer, healthier life by being spayed/neutered!

This is also a sign of a good breeder. All good breeders are going to have this contract.

Besides, if you want to breed dogs, there are dogs that you can buy that are of breeding quality. I am not endorsing this or encouraging this, of course, just pointing it out.

And even good rescue organizations have all of the above mention contracts (sans, of course, the show contract), it's absolutly the most ethical of choices on the part of people who sell pets.

And would you give it/sell it to a responsible person if you could no longer take care of it? Maybe YOU would, but would others???? That is what the organization is trying to avoid, someone not giving it a good home or having it euthanized if someone no longer want/can have the pet.

I would never advise anyone to buy/adopt a dog from a breeder or rescue that DIDN'T have these stipulations and I would advise anyone who wanted to breed or have a rescue to have these contracts.

Answer 9

Real breeders don't make a profit of their puppy unless they show it and it is a champion....or used as a stud.

real breeders pay for
Registration
vet bills
good food
grooming supplies
whelping supplies
and more.....which comes out to way over $5000

Breeding contracts are actually made because they figure....if theyre putting more dogs into the world then they should help those out in animal shelters.....who are here because some breeder sold off contract and are now reproducing bad genes. A breeder tries so hard to get good genes...and then these bybs come along and mess it up. Also IF YOU READ THE CONTRACT it says that if you don't want to keep the dog you can give it back and get a refund.

ACTUALLY if you do your research....you will find that dogs sold under a spay/neuter contract are about $300 cheaper (some even $3000 cheaper) than ones sold off contract.

so before you go complaining about it....read up on it. You sound like a future backyard breeder.

Answer 10

Spay/neuter contracts are to protect the breed. If a puppy is judged not breeding quality, then it is sold on a spay/neuter agreement and you pay a pet price.

If you want a show quality, breeding quality animal you are going to have to prove that you will compete with the dog and you will pursue titles and get all the testing that is required before you breed. If it's good enough to breed, then it's good enough to earn titles as well. IMHO

A good breeder puts a huge amount of time, energy and money into their dogs. Greed has NOTHING to do with it. A good breeder does not make money. Showing or competing with dogs is very expensive. All the testing prior to breeding also costs. My breed is Whippets. We test for eyes, ears and sometimes hearts. Our breed is very healthy, but we want to keep it that way. All dogs are tested for Brucellosis as well.

I sold my pet puppies on spay/neuter agreements also. Not for greed, but because they were pets. I screened the homes very carefully. We don't want our breed bred for money like so many others. Most Whippet breeders are very careful who gets intact dogs.

Breeding dogs the "right" way is not profitable. Good breeders care about what happens to the dogs they've bred.
If you don't want to buy from a breeder who has rules and contracts, then you'll get what you pay for.....and sometimes what you didn't pay for.....like health issues, temperament issues and problems that the sell-to-anyone breeder won't help you with.

Before you breed a dog, research the health issues of that breed and educate yourself. Check the national club's website. Breeding healthy stable animals is an art. In some states you can be liable if any of your puppies has health problems.

I understand your viewpoint, I hope you can understand mine :)