Christians: Why do you say God saved us from our sin and not from his wrath?

Question

You are making an assumption that God has no choice as to when and how sin is punished. Your are saying that God is sitting up there saying "Hey, that's how sins are handled. That's not my department." You are saying that God set up the sin punishment process but somehow cannot change it at will. The only way the sin punishment process can be changed is if God "kills" himself on the cross. Why is God under that restriction?

Drewby: You say "Only perfect blood can cover sin, so since Jesus was sinless His blood was a sacrifice for all mans sin..."
-- Why? Isn't God omnipotent? Can't he proclaim that sin is covered by shaving your beard?

Heather: So if he doesn't change the law, why is it that you don't follow the law?

Rixie: If God is omnipotent, he doesn't need the washing machine.

Vicikix: If he's under no restrictions, then why do you absolve him of responsibility for how you get punished?

Answer 1

Great question! First, the scripture does say that we are saved from His wrath.

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

It will take some time to unpack the notion that God has "no choice as to when and how sin is punished." Let me see what I can do with this. God, being omnipotent, could have chosen any method of dealing with our sin, including immediate annhilation. Had He done this, it would have been over with Adam and Eve, or had they not sinned, then He could have wiped out only those that had sinned. Since it seems fairly apparent that every one I have ever known has sinned at one point or another, this option doesn't work. If we assume that God made man for some purpose other than sin and destruction, then this option actually defeats God's purpose. On the other hand, if God does not defeat sin, then He becomes its enabler in that it is within the pale of omnipotence to stop it. What, then, is the best method to defeat sin?

He could elect to overwhelm our intellect and free will everytime we were about to sin. He could flatly stop it. In the end, this leads to a very unpredictable universe. Let's say, for example, that you have gotten tired of me preaching at you and decide that you want to type some really nasty stuff to tell me off. He could turn your keyboard into a rose petal, a bed of spikes, a pile of manure, whatever. We would not be able to get along well in such a world since nothing would obey the supposed laws of physics unless no one was going to sin. Ultimately, he could even thwart the ions in your brain from cooperating to form a signal to your nerves directing you to do something wrong, but then you would be nothing other than a meatbot. Sorry, couldn't resist =0) Under this scenario, His purpose for a free-willed loving being that chooses to honor Him is also overturned.

If God merely punished sin, but did not ultimately remove it, His plan is, again, thwarted. Though He is all powerful, in order to have what He desired, this was the only way. I will post back later, or better yet, send me an email and I will correspond at length about how this works itself out. It's actually a most logical and elegant solution.

Tom

Answer 2

God chose a child to be born from a virgin to die on a cross as punishment for what he represented because people recorded what happened and it made the act of sacrifice even more powerful...God was proving a point AND saving us from ourselves at the same time, God knows that we will sin because of the choice of Adam and Eve so God took Hell away from us if we ask for forgiveness FOR us...There is no condemnation, there is no hatred from up above, there is only Life and Love from Allah. There are still things that we do not know about God and that is OK because we don't SUPPOSED to know everything about God, we are the children and he is the Father and like a human father God doesn't HAVE to tell us why He did the things that He did...I know that there are contradictions in the Bible but you've got to remember that in the end it was written by man and us humans make mistake EVEN when we try not to at times...So just believe. What are you going to lose? If I am right and you DO start to believe then you'll be in Heaven but if I'm wrong then we all go nowhere and you just wasted your life and I did mine either way so just think about it and be delivered. Spread peace-Not hate please!

Answer 3

You are making a lot of assumptions. One of which is that eternal damnation is a bad thing. And for those in high treason against God, it is a bad thing - an atrocity. And those millions that God drowned in the Flood, was to them a bad thing.

Think of Justice with scales in her hand, blindfolded. There can be no mercy in true justice. It must be tediously exacting.. tooth for tooth, eye for eye. And God must be excruciatingly just, without any partiality or deviation.. Even if the sin were on his own son, it would be completely punished.

Our problem is that we don't see the seriousness of sin. Sin is no big deal to us because we have become callous to it. But for God to give a sentence of eternal damnation for sin, means either of 2 things. 1) Either God is not just in his wrath, or 2) Our sin is so heinously wicked -beyond our understanding- that the exact and perfect justice for our sin demands such terrible retribution from an infinitely holy God.

Where mercy comes in is in Christ taking the just punishment for sin upon himself. Therefor both the justice and mercy of God are satisfied for those who receive pardon from God.

This of course generates far too many more questions than can be answered here now.

Answer 4

You need to do a study of the Old Testament and the series of Covenants that God Made with an ever increasing group of people.

We are saved from sin through Jesus, just like a person in the Ocean who has been thrown a life-ring. We have to grab onto it though, amazing that some choose not to.

But that is where free will come into play.

Peace and God Bless!

Answer 5

The process never changed....it has always been punishment for an unrepentant sinner;and forgiveness for a penitent one.Salvation has always been by Grace through Faith.It only was received by God in a different manner through each covenants.You are adept at the art of pilpul,but not exegesis.

Answer 6

Sin is seen as corrupting, something that leads to death, i.e. dysfunctionality (ultimately spiritual death, i.e. permanent seperation from God's blessings and favour).

Hence its a good thing to be freed from it.

Initially we are freed in terms of 'legal standing', i.e. God doesn't see the christian's sins, because they are borne and paid by Christ at Passover 2000 years ago.

If a christian gets their fellowship with God working well they are progressively saved from actual sins in their life; i.e they become a better person.

Ultimately, christians will have all sinfulness purged out.

Answer 7

His wrath is reserved for the unrepentant. He saves us from sin through being manifested in the flesh in the personage of Jesus Christ and offering Himself (Jesus) as a free-willed, unblemished by original sin sacrifice.

Answer 8

Actually, there are a few things that God cannot do. He can't sin, He can't be illogical, and... something else.

The point is, even God has restrictions. So He can't play your game your way. And why would He want to? It's HIS world, and HIS story. You have a bit part at best.

Answer 9

If God changed the Laws at will then the Bible would be worthless....

God set up principles and laws for a purpose.. not for the purpose of well this day I feel like this so this law is moot and this one stands...

God is a God of Order.... when he says it, it settles it.. he does not change, nor waver, ever, period.

I make no assumptions in my salvation. I am not saved from his wrath. It was my CHOICE to accept Jesus Christ. I didn't HAVE to do it. I CHOSE to do it. I didn't do it out of naieve fear.

Answer 10

That is a fantastic question. One that goes to the heart of Christian philosophy.

You'll notice two seperate and distinct Gods in the Christian Bible. The Old Testament God is vengeful, at times even jealous. He walks among the Jews of the Old Testament and interferes in the outcomes of several human events. He is almost comparable to a Roman or Greek god in the way he acts and intervenes.

In the New Testament, one of the first things Christ sets out is the "New Covenant." Completely replacing the God/Believer relationship that existed in the Old Testament. His teaching are all about love and compassion and forgiveness. He even states that he did not come for the righteous, but for the wicked and the suffering; the sinners. This sets up a new relationship between God and His followers.

Another important thing to remember is this: one of the foundations of Christian belief is free will. God has given it to us to let us CHOOSE how we behave. He allows us to choose to love Him or to not. He does not interfere directly in the affairs of man. (I actually would say that He never did. He works through people He inspires to change events. But while He may inspire them, he most certainly does not compel them. In this way, I see the Old Testament as actually a collection of parables losely based on Hebrew history.)

So, the natural state of sin is to seperate yourself from God's graces i.e. Adam and Eve eating the apple and having to leave the garden (paradise) and go into the world (hell). God does not choose to punish us, he simply lets us choose to be apart from Him and thus just by being human (original sin) we are seperate from God.

In the person of Jesus, God sent our salvation from the suffering we chose to be party to within original sin (a whole other topic for sure). Instead of condeming us to damnation for our freely and willingly committed sins, Christ died, and decended into hell. This is the key part here. By HIS suffering, the suffering we had chosen to be a part of for our sins is lifted from us. All of us. All who believe and ask for forgiveness shall receive it.

So, to summaraize: God does not choose to punish us, he allows us the choice. As it is human nature to sin (original sin), we inevitably choose to sin. It is not a punishment that God gives us, it is us seperating ourselves from Him. In the suffering and death and ressurection of Christ, God, through his sacrifice of His son, gave us a bridge (a do over if you like) that we can choose to take back into His presence. Christ suffered so that we could be free of our mistakes.

It's all about our free will and choices. NOT God's.