Jehovah Witnesses, admit your religion has changed errors in the past, so why Confident Jesus is not God?

Question

This question is for Jehovah Witnesses, not those who feel the question is not valid, or who will respond just to say they're wrong, are cults, and other things. I'm also neutral, and praying to understand if Jesus is God. This is a sincere post.

The last few weeks I've spoke to people from different christian denominations. I received an article from one of them which pointed out different beliefs Jehovah Witnesses have changed over the years. I asked the Witnesses about the things in that article, and they admitted to changing the "errors" because they've grown and now no better.

I respect and commend them for that if it was done for honest reasons, and not because it could not be denied. But I'm unclear why there are so many Jehovah Witnesses who argue without a doubt, that Jesus is not God because of their Bible Translation. A translation which was created around the same time other errors were corrected such as their former leader's belief in pyramidology and other things.

So I'd like to know from Jehovah Witnesses how you would react if your religion admitted this was an error? How you would react? Would you leave the religion, or just add this to the list of corrected errors from growth?

Basically I'm asking how JWs can be so sure this is correct, when they've been sure before about other beliefs? Please do not mention the teachings of other religions, as JWs say they are the true religion, so what others teach would have no importance to what your group holds as true.

I know anyone can respond because this is a public board, but why are there more non-jws responding? I'm already clear on why many teach Jesus is God, I'm trying to ask a question from a religion who thinks differently.

Answer 1

Jws are 100% wrong on this issue. The only way they can support their opinion that Jesus is not God, is to use a Bible where they have changed scriptures to agree with them.

I can understand the possibility of one or two scriptures being poorly translated. But Jws have felt the need to change practically every scripture which supports Jesus and God as the same, and they have added different words. This is pretty nervy for a group that goes around chanting the word trinity is not in the bible.

Those of us who believe the trinity is an accurate description of what the Bible reveals, have never tried to add that word to the bible. Jws have changed six important scriptures among many.

1. Zech. 12:10 - In this verse God is speaking and says "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son" (Zech. 12:10, NASB).

A. The Jehovah's Witnesses change the word "me" to "the one" so that it says in their Bible, "...they will look upon the one whom they have pierced..."
Since the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God in flesh, then Zech. 12:10 would present obvious problems--so they changed it.

2. Gen. 1:1-2 - "In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." (New World Translation, Emphasis added)

A. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society denies that the Holy Spirit is alive, third person of the Trinity. Therefore, they have changed the correct translation of "...the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters," to say "...and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."

3. John 1:1 - They mistranslate the verse as "a god." Again it is because they deny who Jesus is and must change the Bible to make it agree with their theology. The Jehovah's Witness version is this: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

4. Col. 1:15-17 - The word "other" is inserted 4 times. It is not in the original Greek, nor is it implied. This is a section where Jesus is described as being the creator of all things. Since the Jehovah's Witness organization believes that Jesus is created, they have inserted the word "other" to show that Jesus was before all "other" things, implying that He is created.

A. There are two Greek words for "other": heteros, and allos. The first means another of a different kind, and the second means another of the same kind. Neither is used at all in this section of scripture. The Jehovah's Witness have changed the Bible to make it fit their aberrant theology.

5. Heb. 1:6 - In this verse they translate the Greek word for worship, proskuneo, as "obeisance." Obeisance is a word that means to honor, show respect, even bow down before someone. Since Jesus, to them, is created, then he cannot be worshiped. They have also done this in other verses concerning Jesus, i.e., Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9.

6. Heb. 1:8 - This is a verse where God the Father is calling Jesus God: "But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.'" Since the Jehovah's Witnesses don't agree with that they have changed the Bible, yet again, to agree with their theology. They have translated the verse as "...God is your throne..." The problem with the Jehovah's Witness translation is that this verse is a quote from Psalm 45:6 which, from the Hebrew, can only be translated as "...Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom." To justify their New Testament translation they actually changed the OT verse to agree with their theology, too!

The NWT translation is not a good translation. It has changed the text to suit its own theological bias in many places.

Answer 2

I studied with JW's for 3 years. I understand what they say and there are some good points. Jesus never claimed to be God. There is more than one 'son of god', but Jesus was given greater authority and a special purpose. He came as the servant of all.

Answer 3

Christians are not called to question humans or man-made religions when seeking Truth. The Word of God, guided by the Holy Spirit are all you need, because neither will lead you astray, misinterpret scripture, or make religious error. Ever!

It is the responsibility of true Saints, to lovingly correct, rebuke, and expose false teaching. We are not to provide a platform and/or opportunity for heresy to spread untruth.

One who has embraced false teaching, can only respond with what they have been taught!!

In humility and love, I ask that you please pray for guidance, and simply read the Word of God. He will provide wisdom!

2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

2 Peter 1:20 - Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.

2 Corinthians 10:5 - We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take CAPTIVE every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Colossians 2:8-10 - See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

Blessings, Miji

Answer 4

I would, of couse, first need sizable proof. Once that had been supplied. I would need to weigh it against what I know in support of the beliefs that Christ is the SON of God. I would then need to decide, Does the belief that Jesus is God make sense to me. If as an informed Christian, I still felt this way, that Jesus is the son of Jehovah, then I would ultimately end no longer being a witness. If due to, what ever "proof" was availible, I saw that Christ was God, I would be proud of the fact that as things are learned, things are changed in accordance with the Bible.

We are loyal to Jehovah first and foremost, not an organisation. I would feel it my duty to try to share the fact that, as far as I could tell, Jesus is the SON of God and not God.

Answer 5

All this time we have been working to clear ourselves from the false teachings of Christendom.
Why would we regress to accept a false teaching?

When changes have been made it's been from non biblically based teachings to those that have been proven by the bible.

Christmas for example never had a biblical foundation and that was noticed later on so the change was made.

Answer 6

When critics of Jehovah's Witnesses pretend that the JW belief system results from one preferred bible translation, these critics apparently ignore some rather plain facts.

For one thing, Jehovah's Witnesses have literally ALWAYS rejected trinitarianism; that has been true since even before the first issues of Watchtower magazine were printed in the 1870's.

Secondly, the "New World Translation" was not even completed until the 1960's. Jehovah's Witnesses already had a well-formed bible-based theology for DECADES before NWT was released.

Thirdly, Jehovah's Witnesses continue to be entirely comfortable with almost any bible translation. Witnesses do not pretend that NWT is particularly infallible or inspired in a way that other translations are not.


The fact is that many persons choose to become Jehovah's Witnesses specifically BECAUSE the religion teaches the truth about the distinct personages of God and Christ. Jehovah's Witnesses are hardly the mindless lemmings of their critics' taunts; Witnesses are educated bible students who well understand the difference between a conscientious adjustment to one's understanding and a wholesale abandonment of bible truth.

Note that it is non-Witness Christendom which endorses warfare, encourages promiscuity, tolerates homosexuality (even in its priesthood), and refuses to teach against such occultist Satanisms as Halloween.

Answer 7

That they are human, but at least they are trying trying to get better. What you lack to understand is "the leaders" are all JWs, not an elite group who get paid very well for the duration of their lives to be leaders. There are no lifetime leadership positions. Every male witness can serve in one of those positions at some point. In that way, no one or group of individuals can say they are the authority. Too bad the rest of Christendom doesn't follow the example.

Instead, Christendom continue to mover further into the shadows on the edge of the light of Christ. They ignore immortality, worldliness, and the churches becoming money exchange centers with rich lifetime leaders.

Made mistakes? But, at least they are trying.

Answer 8

The New World Translation is actually revered by more than just Jehovah's Witnesses for it's accuracy. Take for example, Jason BeDuhn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/jason_beduh...
This man is an historian of religion and culture, and is currently Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Northern Arizona University. He also is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses and therefore provides an unbiased answer to your question regarding the NWT. It is quite interesting to see what he has to say about the New World Translation. He provides a very good reason to believe that the New World Translation is very accurate.

Also, you mentioned that our translation was "created around the same time other errors were corrected" such as the belief that an Egyptian pyramid has anything to do with true worship. It was actually in 1928 that the Watchtower clarified this error. The New World Translation was proposed in 1946 with the Greek Scriptures. It was released in volumes beginning in 1950. It took over 12 years from the beginning of the translating to completion. The translation committee was very thorough.

There are other scholars such as Greek scholar Dr. Rijkel ten Kate, Thomas N. Winter of the University of Nebraska, and Professor Benjamin Kedar, a Hebrew scholar in Israel. These are just a few who respect the NWT for it's accuracy.
There have already been numerous scriptures quoted by Jehovah's Witnesses in your answers that will help you understand why we believe Jesus is the Son of Jehovah God.
I will also include a link to an article that will help to explain this further. It discusses if Jesus Christ is God.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20050422/article_01.htm

Answer 9

I am a Jehovah's Witnesses.

Who did Jesus say he was? Mark 14:61 & 62, John 3:18, John 5:25 & 26; John 11:4 Here he says he is God's Son, he also refers to himself as the "son of man" referring to his human birth, he was truly a man. He is also referred to at Daniel 7:13 as the "son of man" that appears before "the Ancient of Days." Jesus allowed others to reach the conclusion that he was God's Son. Such as John the Baptist and Martha (John 1:29-34: John 11:27) They believed that he was the promised Messiah, who had a pre heavenly existance and was miraculously transferred by God to the womb of the virgin Mary. (Isaiah 7: 14; Matt. 1: 20-23)

Is Jesus somehow part of God? What did Jesus say and other bible writers? (Matt 27: 57-28:6) Could Jesus resurrect himself? ( Acts 2:31 & 32) Condition of the dead? (Ecc 9:5) Who resurrected Jesus? (Acts 2:32; 10:40)

Stephen see vision of "Son of man standing at God's right hand." Acts 7:56 Just as he was 'alongside God' before he came to earth. (John 17:5) What did Paul say? (Acts 17:24 & 31) Paul described Jesus as "a man", lesser than God, whom God restored to life in heaven. How did the apostle John described Jesus? (John 20:31) John also saw a vision "the Lamb" is identified as Jesus (John 1:29) Rev. 14: 1 & 3 the Lamb and the Father described as two distinct names.

The name of the Lamb is Jesus what is the name of the Father? (Luke 1:30 & 32, Ps 83:18) Many have replaced God's name with LORD or GOD. The capitols is suppose to distinguish Jehovah from other lords or gods. In many translations, the name has been restored. The American Standard Version (1901) which states "The American Revisers, after a careful consideration, were brought to the unanimous conviction that a Jewish superstition, which regarding the Divine Name as too sacred to be uttered, ought no longer to dominate in the English or any other version of the Old Testament, as it fortunately does not in the numerous versions made by modern missionaries."

The Father - Superior to the Son: Who did Jesus tells us to pray to? (Matt 6:9) What did Jesus say about his father?
(John 14:28; Luke 22:42; Mark 13:32) Also consider the following scriptures (Ps 90: 1 &2; Col. 1:15)

The Trinity and the Church: The Trinity is not a teaching of Jesus or of the early Christians. It is a treaching of the church. In it's 1999 issue on the Trinity, The Living Pulpit observed: "Sometimes, it seems that everyone assumes that the doctrine of the trinity is standard Christian theological fare." but it added that it is not "a biblical idea."

The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) discusses the Trinity at length and admits: "The Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th century invention...The formulation 'one God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century."

Martin Werner, as professor of the University of Bern, Switzerland, observed: "Wherever in the New Testament the relationship of Jesus to God, the Father, is brought into consideration, whether with references to his appearance as a man or to his Messianic status, it is conceived of and represented categorically as subordination."

Clearly, what Jesus and the early Christians believed is far different from the Trinity teaching of churches today. Where did it come from?

The Trinity's Early Origins: The worship of pagan gods grouped in threes, or triads, was common before Jesus was born. "From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity" per historian Will Durant. In the Encyclopoedia of Religion and Ethics, James Hastings wrote: "In Indian religion, e.g.,we meet with the trinitarian group of Brahma, Siva, and Visnu; and in Egyptian religion with the trinitarian group of Osiris, Isis, and Horus."

Paul stated: "There are many 'gods' and many 'lords'..There is actually to us one God the Father: and "there is one Lord, Jesus Christ" 1 Cor. 8: 5 & 6

With regard to "errors", not all "errors" are true. When the "bible students" began an intense study and research of bible doctrines and teaches, they did make some mistakes with regards to the extend that a prophecy would be fulfilled at that time. But at the same time, they were correct in many areas. It took years to fully cleanse themselves of doctrines and practices of men and to rely completely on the bible. Which is why they did still celebrate holidays in the early 1900's. As far a pyramidology.....that is a streach...I believe there is a pyramid shaped grave stone close to where Charles Russell was buried, but I don't believe there is any truth that they believed in pyramidology. Other than, they still celebrated Christmas, and the Christmas tree is taken from the pyramid. Just another one of man's traditions that they later realized was not Christian.

Answer 10

WHY are we Confident Jesus is NOT God?

In a nutshell, because the earliest Bible manucripts say so. These existed long before churches made changes in various later manuscripts.

Have you herd of the Sahidic Coptic New Testament?
It was in existance 1,700 years prior to the NWT.

It shows --for instance-- that John 1:1 was first written exactly the way the NWT Bible now renders it, & therefore proves that it was later changed ... No one has the authority to change Scripture, no matter what their claims. The NWT simply recognized those changes & properly avoided any use of them!
(I haven't been able to find links to the Sahidic Coptic NT that are either: .org; .edu; .gov--& therefore acceptable to Y!As-- or I'd post them. I will email them on request, however.)

>"After being familiar with the NWT for 20 yrs and comparing it with some 55 English translations over that same period we can honestly say that it is our opinion this translation is indeed one of the major/main Bible translations of the 20th century, as Harper's Bible Dictionary (1985 ed. R.G.Bratcher, The English Bible. pp.266, 267) and The Lion Handbook to the Bible (Lion Publishing, 1976 reprint, p. 79) admits." http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/newworldtranslation/home.htm

Comments regarding:
"The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures" ( by the New World Bible Translation Committee. Brooklyn, N. Y.: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society ), by Thomas Nelson Winter, University of Nebraska-Lincoln:

..."An original Greek text ... it should not surprise us that it took a world-wide group of Bible students to pull it off. This is no ordinary interlinear: the integrity of the text is preserved, and the English which appears below it is simply the basic meaning of the Greek word. Thus the interlinear feature of this book is no translation at all. A text with instant vocabulary more correctly describes it. A translation in smooth English appears in a slim column at the right-hand margin of the pages."
..."The book has been very carefully compiled and printed. When a Witness comes to the door, the classicist, Greek student, or Bible student alike would do well to bring him in and place an order."
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/classicsfacpub/27/

"It Is The Best Interlinear New Testament Available", by Dr. Jason BeDuhn, Associate Professor of Religious Studies, and Chair Department of Humanities, Arts, and Religion at Northern Arizona University
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/newworldtranslation/kitbest.htm


Regarding who Christ is/was, we certainly believe that he would know --and not lie about or hide-- his true identity. To that end we allow him to tell us ...

Who Is Jesus Christ?
- Early Questions About Identity
- Who JESUS Said He Was
http://watchtower.org/library/g/2005/4/22/article_01.htm

The Bible --when read from a totally unbiased viewpoint-- is very clear about the identities of both Christ, &, God the Father. All such Scriptures are examined & thoroughly considered in the brochure:

Should You Believe in the Trinity? http://watchtower.org/e/ti/index.htm?article=start.htm

"You alone, Jehovah, are the God above all other gods in supreme charge of all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)

"Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, ... This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of YOU, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. " --John 17:1,3

"Make SURE of all things; hold fast to what is fine." 1 Th 5:21

" The Be·roe′ans ... received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, CAREFULLY EXAMINING the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so." Acts 17:10,11

Regarding propaganda about Jehovah's Witnesses ... If anyone wants to know the truth about the Bible & our beliefs, ask us. We have nothing to hide. There are those who have personal vendettas against us, who make up stories, & distort truths beyond recognition ... beware of these!

Should You Believe Everything You Hear? :
- Propaganda Can Be Deadly
- The Manipulation of Information
- Do Not Be a Victim of Propaganda! Is the Work of Jehovah's Witnesses Propagandistic?
http://watchtower.org/e/20000622/article_01.htm

propaganda critic:
index of site dedicated to propaganda analysis
www.propagandacritic.com/