Question for Catholics (esp military members/veterans): What would you do in this situation?

Question

Hypothetical situation:

The Pope decides that your country's military involvement in a particular conflict is morally reprehensible. He issues a papal edict dissolving the oath of commissioning or enlistment taken by all Catholic personnel in your military, and directs them to lay down their arms and refuse to serve further. Front-line combat troops and rear-echelon typists are all affected.

Would you obey the Papal order, or would you continue to serve your military?

NOTE: Not picking on Catholics, they're just the only ones I know of with one cleric who has such a sweeping grant of ecclesiastical authority ("whatsoever ye loose and bind..." etc). I'm just curious how folks would resolve this conflict, and why.

Answer 1

Okay. This is an excellent question. Your asking primarily about obedience and authority. And where the Pope comes in and what we as faithful Catholics should do in such a situation. I have been writing and re-writing my answer for awhile in an attempt to 'shorten' my reply. However I simply can not. If you would be so patient to allow my desertation on the matter I would appreciate it because this question requires a three fold answer.

First of all allow me to explain what "authority" is. Authority in the Church is necessary also for that life within the faith to be peaceful and secure. All people of the Catholic faith live within the society of the Church, as this social living arrangement is natural to mankind for God created us to live together; with one another, in order to more readily help each other in the discharge of our daily lives during the course of carrying out each individuals secular events as ordained by God. Living within a society is quite natural to mankind, and the authority of the Church that keeps us peaceful and secure (in the faith) is natural as well.

Thus, we cannot be disobedient to ANY authority except for the one that governs and rules us, this reason, and obedience has limits because the authority of the Church government is limited by its competence and that which it is entitled to do.

The Church cannot command anything and everything in the lives of the faithful. Were It to attempt to overstep its bounds in the matter of an issuing a papal edict like you suggest--, we would be correct to disobey that same Church authority, because the Church, in this matter, is not in command and is not entitled to command it.

The authority of the Church is absolute only in so much that this same authority is complete within the realm of its competence, and it is subordinate to no other authority within this same Church realm. (The liberals claim otherwise, however).

The above is not an original notion of mine. They are the writings of Aristotle, explained by Saint Thomas Aquinas, and furthered by the Jesuit, Suarez.

So, what is the Church entitled to do with its authority? The Church itself answers this question: Nothing arbitrary or contrary to right reason. True Church government is not arbitrary because the government of God Himself over everything in Heaven and Earth is not arbitrary. God is all-powerful but the Church is not. Its authority, however, is absolute yet is not morally omnipotent. Church authorities sometimes enact amoral laws, but the faithful are not obliged, in conscience, to obey them. Laws may also be beyond the competence of the Church authority that enacted them and compliance to them is not a matter of obedience it. Whether a law is positively immoral or outside the competence of the Church authority, it is tyrannical and as St Thomas says, is not according to right reason and is not a law but a perversion of law.

When the authority of the Church demands or requires more than what the faithful should rightly give, such as acceptance of this papal edict that conflicts or cannot be justified by the established traditions that have been transmitted through the generations, than this (hypothetical) new Church requirement ventures into an area where no limits can be set by the same authority that promotes it.

The natural means to the natural end of our getting to Heaven is limited by that end by the principle’s set by Aristotle, Aquinas, and Suarez for the end in view sets limits on the means, and when it comes to the Church’s authority the end was well defined in the established traditions by which Christ so peacefully governed His Church through her doctrines.

Secondyl, obedience. You still with me? the doctrines of the church and of truth are found preserved in the faith of the laity. History proves this to be true. As in years past, the question of obedience is not so much centered around obedience to Church authority although this is needed, but rather to first show obedience to Christ and the truths of the faith that have been preserved and passed on to each generation through the doctrines and traditions of the Church.

Again, obedience and authority are different sides to the same coin. Catholics SHOULD understand that obedience is first owed to Christ…then the Pope.

Obedience keeps the soul protected from dangerous “self will” because all authority, as we know, comes from God and must always be obeyed as long as the order given is not in conflict to a higher law, or exceed the limits of the power found in the legitimate authority. This would be the case of the edit, okay?

The Pope's authority is limited. He can change things administratively. For example, the most talked about one lately here on YA is Lent and when to abstain from eating meat. It used to be that all Fridays were to be meatless but the Pope in his correct administrative duties changed that. He can authorize liturgical changes, add or remove Feast days on the Liturgical calendar. He can say something with 'ex cathedera' (remember that the Pope's actions and teachings as a private person, private theologian, political ruler, or private author, are excluded) which is a very rare occurance.

He can not change the Canon of the Mass, it is forbidden. It is also forbidden that he can issue such an edit. If he did, with the information that I just set up here, you are 'allowed' to disobey him, and in fact I would say it "must" be disobeyed. The Pope can not issue such an edit morally, or lawfully that affects the running of another secular government. He could for HIS country/city; the Vatican (City/State) and it would be appropriate. Since he no longer has titular role in the temporal govenance of countries that is not his duty to do so.

Whew. I hope this helped you.

Brief summation: Disobey the Pope in this matter. Read above for explanation.

Answer 2

I'm not catholic myself. But the pope is just a man himself and if I were in the military today (I was 30+ years ago) and the pope were to issue that edict I would not subject myself to imprisonment or execution for anything sent down by any man.
As I am writing this I am looking at the framed copy of my Honorable Discharge from The United States Air Force, and I am very proud of the fact that I served. I did nothing heroic or anything like that but I did serve honorably, and have the utmost of respect for anyone that is serving today or has served in the past.

Answer 3

The Pope doesn’t have that kind of authority unless scripture unequivocally supports this (which it does not); he would also need the additional support from the Cardinal of Bishops to agree (Vatican III).

In the 1700’s a group “Quietists” did such a thing and it was a disaster as Muslims killed most in Spain. Needless to say, this group doesn't exist today. The Vatican is quite aware of the history and strives to be wise than to be foolish.

However, if the Pope "Opened Dialoge" asking us to do so, I would have to meditate strongly to see if my conscience could align with this request. I would suspect many Priest would be available for confession & guidance.

Answer 4

Wow, what a large theory! seems somewhat drastic and what a transition for people who stay there. perhaps, purely perhaps the Vatican would desire to lease out rooms to travelers who long to be close to the Pope. the money would want for use for the hungry and homeless. I do would desire to declare purely for those neglected via the greediness of others. this could be an extremely long record! might travelers bypass if the Vatican put in an costly pool with a "all you could drink bar"? good question... Medusa

Answer 5

I am not Catholic, but that is why I am not. I don't think that any human should have the power to tell me how to worship God and interpret His word. People are intelligent and can now read the Bible for themselves, unlike in Medieval Ages when you had to know Latin or Hebrew to interpret God's word.

Answer 6

gotta love the 87 page manifesto you got concerning the pope. if you are in the military, your allegiance is to your commander in chief, not some cult leader.

Answer 7

I'm not catholic, but I would think they would do what they wanted to, just like they do on pro choice and pro life.