What separates the Rapture vs Second Coming?

Question

The Bible shows us the difference, can any of you give the scriptures that separate these events and shows in fact they are not the same?

Augustine~ The Pre Tribulation Theory was actually preached on in 379 A.D. it only came out in the 1800s and it was not by a man name Darby. It was a woman who they claim came up with this theory. The Pre-Tribulation theory is the oldest of all five major theories we know today.

What about the scriptures that point to the "catching up" (known in the Greek language as harpazo, Latin meaning "raptus). Do you know what the word harpazo means in Greek, when Paul spoke this in 1 Thessalonians 4:17?

No not telling you of two Second Comings. One will only be for those who are in Christ, they will be the only ones to hear the trump. Christ comes down into the clouds, doesn't literally touch earth's ground. (Rapture) His Second Coming the Bible tells us ALL shall see Him coming. Big difference!!!

Rapture> Christ comes for His church
Second Coming> Christ come WITH His church

Rapture> Christ comes in the air
Second Coming> Christ comes and steps on earth

Rapture>Only His own see Him
Second Coming> All shall see Him

Rapture>Imminent, any moment
Second Coming> Follows definite signs including the Tribulation

Rapture>For the church only
Second Coming> For redeemed Israel & Gentiles

Rapture>Jesus descends with a shout
Second Coming> No shout mentioned

Rapture>A resurrection takes place
Second Coming>No resurrection mentioned

Rapture>Jesus does not return on a white horse
Second Coming>Jesus returns on a white horse

Rapture>Judgment seat of Christ
Second Coming>Sheep/Goat judgment, Antichrist/world

Rapture>No reference to Satan
Second Coming>Satan bound

Rapture>Tribulation begins
Second Coming>Millennial Kingdom begins

He comes like a thief in the night for His own.

If you knew your house was going to be broken in and your material things taken, you would stay home, right? But, since you don't know if a thief comes or not.. you go leaving your house empty. That's what this passage means.. Christ will come for His own, like a thief in the night comes to rob.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes for his saints (1 Thess. 4:16), while
at the second coming the Lord comes with His saints (1 Thess. 3:13).
Paul speaks of the rapture
as a "mystery" (1 Cor. 15:51-54), that is a truth not revealed until
its disclosure by the apostles (Col. 1:26), making it a separate
event, while the Second Coming was predicted in the Old Testament
(Dan. 12:1-3; Zech. 12:10; 14:4).
Rapture is a translation/resurrection event where the Lord takes
believers to his Father's house in heaven (John 14:3), while at the
Second Coming believers return from heaven to the earth (Matt.
24:30).
Before the Great
Tribulation. God gives His people a promise in Revelation 3:10-
11 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep
thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the
world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come
quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy
crown."

Sorry to see that you are close minded on the scriptures, Augustine.

Answer 1

The rapture is when Jesus calls His bride (the Church) to meet Him "in the air." As it is written: "With a shout of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of God's trumpet, the Lord himself will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." (II Thessalonians 4:16-17)

We see that in Revelation 2-3, the church age is present on the earth. In chapter 4, the church is no longer mentioned. It says "After these things I saw a door standing open in heaven. The first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after this." (Revelation 4:1)

It says, "After these things..." What things? The things of the church. It is never mentioned again in Revelation. Saints are mentioned, but these are Tribulation saints, who have "washed their robes...in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14)

The Tribulation is not for the church. Jesus promised that His church would not endure this. (Revelation 3:10)

Other passages that give us a picture of the rapture are found in 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, II Corinthians 12:2-4, and John 14:1-3 for starters.

When Jesus comes for His "second coming," He returns to the earth, setting foot on the Mount of Olives, where an earthquake will occur. "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south." (Zechariah 14:4)

He will then begin to rule and reign over the earth, along with the saints that followed Him from heaven. "Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied about these people when he said, "Look! The Lord has come with countless thousands of his holy ones. He will execute judgment on all people and convict everyone of all the ungodly things that they have done in such an ungodly way, including all the harsh things that these ungodly sinners have said about him." (Jude 1:14-15)

Now, back to the etymology of the word "rapture." Allow me to quote I Thessalonians 4:17 from the Latin Vulgate so that you can see it:

"deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul "rapiemur" c u m illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper c u m Domino erimus"

And in the Greek:

"ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς "ἁρπαγησόμεθα" ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα."

So, regardless of who people assume the discoverer was, or how the concept was discovered in recent history, the fact remains that the word (and the concept of a) rapture is Scriptural. Rapture first, Second Coming later.

Answer 2

Mathew Chapter 24 outlines the signs of Christ's return or the Second Coming. Verse 29 reveals it will be immediately following the tribulation, verse 22 indicates that Christians will be suffering on earth during this time. The Rapture is discussed in verses 39-41. I say that because it is the only explanation for the disappearance of people as indicated in the verses.
When questioning prophecy it is always important to remember that we are attempting to understand a future event. We are piecing together a puzzle and we won't know for sure how it was supposed to come together until it happens. I think we can be certain of some things but details may elude us. Our best bet is to be ready for either situation, suffer the Tribulation or be prepared for the Rapture at any moment.

Answer 3

Sacred Scripture is clear in a number of places there will be a Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture theory has only been with us since about 1830 when a man named Darby basically concocted it from his own varied interpretations. Many well meaning and well intentioned people believe the "Rapture", as is depicted in the "Left Behind" books and movies is in the Bible, but the fact is, as it is believed by these folks, it cannot be found anywhere in the Bible.

Prior to the early 1800s this theology was not believed nor was it taught by anyone in the Christian Church...Catholic or Protestant. The question begs to be asked..... did the Christian Church have it wrong for the first 1800 years it existed and only within the past 200 years did Darby fix it?

P.S. Question for Schneb: Are you telling us, there will be 2 Second Comings? What you're describing sounds like a Second and then a Third Coming. Scripture tells us of only one final return. The real truth is not in my words but in Sacred Scripture of the Christian Holy Bible.

PPS: Your comment posted above with my replies to each:

#1 Augustine~ The Pre Tribulation Theory was actually preached on in 379 A.D. it only came out in the 1800s and it was not by a man name Darby. It was a woman who they claim came up with this theory. The Pre-Tribulation theory is the oldest of all five major theories we know today.

Reply: Your history is flawed. Believe what you will, but I have researched this and I think you're repeating something you heard rather than empirical research.

#2 What about the scriptures that point to the "catching up" (known in the Greek language as harpazo, Latin meaning "raptus). Do you know what the word harpazo means in Greek, when Paul spoke this in 1 Thessalonians 4:17?

Reply: I am well acquainted with the 1 Thess 4:17 arguement for the Rapture. Please include the remaining Bible verses that support the entire theory. All this tells us is of the "catching up" or "catching away" to meet Him in the air. This alone does not support the "Left Behind" theology.

#3 No not telling you of two Second Comings. One will only be for those who are in Christ, they will be the only ones to hear the trump. Christ comes down into the clouds, doesn't literally touch earth's ground. (Rapture) His Second Coming the Bible tells us ALL shall see Him coming. Big difference!!!

Reply: Please, I beg you to give me supporting scripture telling us that the only people that will see and hear the return of Christ are those "who are in Christ". It is not there. The verse you use to support the Rapture theology, 1Thessalonians 4:17, does not say what you are telling me here. In fact it says just the opposite. When He comes the Whole World will know it. With a Shout and Trumpets does not sound very "Gnostic" to me. Nor can it be fouond anywhere specifically saying only those people who are in Christ will see and hear this. Again, if I have missed it, please send me the verses so I may look them up.

PS: An impressively long list of rebuttal but you still are not giving us supporting scripture. PLEASE LIST SUPPORTING BIBLE VERSES, and not just your personal belief and opinion.

Another rebuttal and another response:

He comes like a thief in the night for His own.

If you knew your house was going to be broken in and your material things taken, you would stay home, right? But, since you don't know if a thief comes or not.. you go leaving your house empty. That's what this passage means.. Christ will come for His own, like a thief in the night comes to rob.

Reply: How does this explain or detail or describe that when Jesus Christ returns that only those people who "are in Christ" will see and hear Him. How does this show me a "Secret Rapture"?

I can see you're mind is closed to real study and reason and I am wasting my time here so this will be my final post here. May God bless you and everyone else here and a Happy Easter to All.

Answer 4

There is a difference... I will tell you what i know from study... and go find the scriptures

The rapture will be Christ's return like a thief in the night... to take the Church (not a denomination, like some will believe, but those who are born again, redeemed in the blood of Christ)....
Matthew 24:39-44
and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

some will be taken, but the unbelievers will not.

the Second coming will be seen by all... whether they believed or not... when every tongue will confess and knee will bow... because they will know they are duped by the enemy
Revelation 19:11-24
Then I saw heaven opened, and a white horse was standing there. Its rider was named Faithful and True, for he judges fairly and wages a righteous war. His eyes were like flames of fire, and on his head were many crowns. A name was written on him that no one understood except himself. He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God. The armies of heaven, dressed in the finest of pure white linen, followed him on white horses. From his mouth came a sharp sword to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He will release the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty, like juice flowing from a winepress. On his robe at his thigh[e] was written this title: King of all kings and Lord of all lords.
Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, shouting to the vultures flying high in the sky: “Come! Gather together for the great banquet God has prepared. Come and eat the flesh of kings, generals, and strong warriors; of horses and their riders; and of all humanity, both free and slave, small and great.”

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the world and their armies gathered together to fight against the one sitting on the horse and his army. And the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who did mighty miracles on behalf of the beast—miracles that deceived all who had accepted the mark of the beast and who worshiped his statue. Both the beast and his false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. Their entire army was killed by the sharp sword that came from the mouth of the one riding the white horse. And the vultures all gorged themselves on the dead bodies.

The Church of Christ will be taken up with Christ when He comes as a thief in the nite... and all believers will return with him as the army of Christ when the Second coming happens

at least that is the way i understand it

Answer 5

"Now we request you brothers, with regard to the COMING of the LORD AND OUR GATHERING TOGETHER to HIM, that you be not quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us to the effect that the DAY of the LORD has come. Let no one deceive you in any way for (it will not come) unless the apostasy comes first..."
(II Thessalonians 2:3)
This "gathering together" to the Lord is expressed by the phrase "thus we shall always be with the Lord" in I Thessalonians 4:15-18, which is clearly speaking about the Rapture, and yet continues in chapter 5 as referring to "the day of the Lord", and the destruction which comes upon the world before the establishment of the millennial Kingdom.
As I understand it, Christ will catch away His Church. This is the first harvest referred to in Revelation chapter 14 where one like the Son of Man reaps the harvest of the earth. Immediately after this, earth and the government of Antichrist come under the bowl, or vial judgments of God's wrath. These culminate in the return of the Lord Jesus with His saints to destroy the army of Antichrist at Armageddon and establish His millennial Kingdom, where He will rule and reign from Jerusalem, as described in Revelation Chapter 19. It would appear that this whole period is referred to as the "Day of the Lord."
So to answer your question, the sequence of events appears to be 1)Rapture (Revelation 14)
2) Wrath (Revelation 15-18) 3)Return (Revelation chapter 19)

Answer 6

The Rapture is Christ coming for His church.
John 14:3
“And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."

The Second Coming is Christ coming WITH His church.
Revelation 19
Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war... And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

Answer 7

One is real (Second Coming) and one is not (Rapture).

On has been believed by the Church since the beginning and is included in the Creeds....

One was made up by a failed Anglican Priest (of which I am so ashamed!) in the 1850's

I won't quote Scripture because Christianity is so much more than "sola scriptura" (The Bible alone)

Answer 8

Dear readyokn,

The "rapture", 2nd coming of Christ, and Judgment Day ALL occur on the last day. You are correct-they ALL represent the same day.

Answer 9

*Sigh* All this because Margaret MacDonald had a fever in the 1830's.

I wonder if there are still Millerites in white robes waiting in the trees.

Answer 10

It all happens within the twinkling of an eye!!!