How can I know whether you are a Christian or not?

Question

Jesus said (John 13:34-35)"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." But some poor kid here just wanted a scripture reference and his fellow Christians misjudged his question and the gang bang was on. For fifty plus years I've watched "Christians" tear at one another like wild dogs. This, more than anything, led me to conclude conversion and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a fraud. The compassionate mostly remain so, the hard-hearted and petty mostly remain so. 2 Corinthians 5:17 says "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come." But not really. There's no general effect as there should be if that scripture is true. I ask you: Could Jesus justly blame anyone for concluding he was just a man given the way his followers treat each other here every day? I think not.

If you are right, the "many are called but few are chosen" is far fewer than I'd imagined. On the other hand, that would make far more sense than Jesus as the "get out of hell free" card that most of evangelicalism seems to see him as. This would also reconcile "I will show you my faith by my works", not as works righteousness, but inasmuch as true repentance is obvious and unmistakable to an observer, which in fact it is not with most of those who call themselves Christians.

I don't think your take on reality is justified by the evidence, but your take on Chistianity is justified by the scripture and reason, and your responses reflect deep consideration of the implication of the teachings of the NT. To my surprise, I had never fully considered that the number of actual Christians might be just as low as it seems. Repentance never occurred, so conversion never occurred. Can it really be that simple?

This question actually double posted for some reason, and with one exception the pharisees came out in force. It's interesting you're the only one who responded to the double post, and the only one who responded with a rational explanation that maintains the validity of the faith. I'll consider what you've said. It was a serious answer from a serious person of faith.

Answer 1

Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

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I think you make a valid point, though I disagree with some of your conclusions.

But, the above scripture is an interesting one. You have people that proclaim Jesus as Lord, who have done works in His name, yet do not know Him.

Could it be said that those you are seeing are the very ones that Jesus is talking about? Could it be that they think they are serving God, but are only serving themselves? Or is the above scripture a reference to those that serve in other religions (Islam, Buddism, Hinduism, Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, ...)?

This, more than anything, led me to conclude conversion and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a fraud

Only God can determine if the person you are observing has indeed had a conversion.

I would not be so bold to assert that conversion and indwelling of the Holy Spirit is fraud.

Let's look at Peter. I like Peter because he has a passion like none other. On the Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit fell. Peter gets up and preaches to the crowd and several thousand are saved. Later, he is walking by the temple and a beggar asks for money. He has none, but tells the man, "Silver and Gold, have I none. But what I do have, I give to you. Get up and walk in the name of Jesus." and the man is healed.

He also goes to the Gentiles and watches them filled with the Holy Spirit.

There is little doubt that Peter had an infilling of the Holy Spirit and a conversion.

Yet, what happens to Peter Later? In Galations, Paul tells us that Peter was eating with the Gentiles. Yet, when the leadership came to Paul and Peter, what did Peter do??

Gal 2:11 But when Cephas (Peter) came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
Gal 2:12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he {began} to withdraw and hold himself aloof, ...

He pulled back and quit fellowshipping with the Gentiles? Why? Because he was afraid.

Did Peter lose his conversion experience? I do not think so (as evidenced by the letters he later wrote).