Why don't we have atheist chaplains?

Question

I saw my first soldier die my 2nd month in Iraq. Kept having this idiot theist from arkansas with a college degree (in religious studies no less; kinda seems like getting a degree in astrology to me but yeah) yammer on about how "it's god's plan" and asking me to talk about it with him. First thing i asked him was, "sir, don't they allow atheist chaplains?" He was offended. I found it a bit offensive myself that i had to talk to some idiot that thinks the earth has only existed for 10,000 years about my first confrontation with gory death. What makes him an expert? Why couldn't i have had someone who had a realistic view of the world to talk to?

atheism is just as much a philosophical set of beliefs as any theism/deism or other. I needed just as much guidance at 19 watching some kid shaking and bleeding to death for my first time as any member of the superstitious majority out there. In fact, i'd argue moreso than any of them. Reason being, I know what i just saw was a conclusion, not a begining, not a transition, but an ENDING of a life. Game over for that kid, and i know it. Just wondering why it is that i had to listen to some person who considers ignorance a virtue (i.e. faith) tell me what he feels about the situation. I just needed someone to talk to about it that wouldn't give me a story about this or that random fantastic piece of insanity that justifies this kids death.

Never said anywhere in that whole thing i wanted to be councelled by this man.
Hell yes he evangelised more than he helped.ver batim "i can understand why someone like an atheist would kill themself, I mean what does he have to live for?"-on Suicide Prevention (yeah they give those classes in iraq)
At the time, not every NCO or officer had seen very much killing yet, it was a bit early, not much help from them..next?
Also, not too many licensed therapists around lol, but thanks next?
Intersting talk about our "administration's vernacular" but what the hell does that have to do with chaplains?This war is microcosm of this culture's whole belief structure and politics; run by men who peddle superstition and thrive on our communal laziness to change anything. they know we're more concerned with some percieved soul than we are the well being of our neighbor.

I appreciate most of america's lack of voting presence last election, by the way. Hopefully some of you at least made it to church that sunday.

Answer 1

I am a former military man and I commend you for your service for our country. As an atheist I am familiar with "moral" justifications the military chaplains can provide. I find it rather lacking, so here's some advice, it's the best I can give.

If you are an atheist, you won't need a chaplain.

But you would need a philosophy for living on this earth.

A philosophy based on reason, not faith.

To base all your knowledge through logic and rational thought, abandoning mysticism, intrinsicism, and subjectivism.

Can you answer these questions (pertaining to religion)?
Does God exist? (Metaphysics - The study of the universe.)
How do you know it? (Epistemology - Theory of knowledge.)

As a living, rational human being you will need a philosophy for living on this earth. Religion is powerless against the right philosophy.

If the military refuses to commission atheist chaplains then your next best option is to discover the right philosophy that not only can logically refute religion on the basis of reason but even identify moral justifications of why.

The philosophy I have discovered is called Objectivism, coined by the novelist-philosopher Ayn Rand.

To begin your studies, you should acquire the book listed below.

Good Luck.

Answer 2

The term "atheist chaplain" would be an oxymoron. A chaplain is a religious leader that serves the spiritual needs of the troops. Atheists have no belief in God or religion as a structured part of society. It is said that many religious converts find God in foxholes. Some don't. If you consider yourself an atheist why would you approach a chaplain for advice? You might as well had a conversation with an inanimate or lifeless object? War brings out the worst in mankind, but it can also bring about the most positive changes in other lives. How you perceive your world is your own personal affair and is a part of your own belief system. If you cannot accept the chaplain's role or his beliefs, why would you rely on him to answers you would obviously reject in the first place? Either you believe or you don't, whether in war or peacetime. Issues of death and life are more difficult to handle without a belief system that you seemingly rejected in the first place.

Answer 3

I'm in awe of his insensitivity.

I know you can only see what chaplains are on hand in your BDE, so that's a real limitation right there.

I'd go for a Catholic chaplain and tell him right off the bat that you're an atheist and not there to be converted. They're usually pretty good about that and more about helping their fellow man than recruiting for their religion. His view of the world won't be as realistic as yours, but I don't think he'll try to tell you that dying like that is "God's plan".

Take care, stay safe, and I'm sorry you had to put up with that.

Answer 4

You can't have an atheist chaplain for the fact that atheism is the absence of belief of a deity/god. I disagree with the military for making you talk with a "man of god". If the chaplains were really helping our soldiers in Iraq, do you really think that we would still be having so many soldiers return with PTSD and other psychological disorders? I think that definitely talking to someone is important, but you should choose who you share personal feelings and thoughts.

I spent 8 weeks in the Harris County, Houston, Texas morgue when I was 17 doing "rotations" of following around doctors. It was part of my High School, which was dedicated to promoting the medical field as a profession. I watched an autopsy of a decomposing body with a execution style wound to the back of the head, a motorcycle accident with the brains in a Ziplock baggy, and a body of a person who committed suicide by hanging. Granted I didn't see the actual death, but I saw the result.

They bring over the new police recruits in training through the morgue to see the dead bodies for them to know what to expect. Over half of those individuals either faint or become nauseous. After spending 8 weeks in the morgue at 17, I definitely learned a lot. I learned that I no longer was interested in becoming a medical examiner.

Every person handles death differently. Sometimes though, your job requires you to do something that you don't want to do...ie. speak to a chaplain...do it, live with it, but after find your own person to talk to that respects your morals, values and beliefs. Your realistic view of the world is probably far different from mine now. You have expereinced something than only a handful of Americans have experienced. The reason you had to talk to a chaplain is bureaucratic, as much as, removing "In God we Trust" from currency and "One Nation under God". My guess is some bureaucrat got a fire lit under his butt to help address this serious issue and (without the experience of seeing a "gory death") decided that the best course of action was to make it a requirement for every soldier who is present at the death of another must speak with a chaplain. So....put up with it, deal with it.....such is life.

I'm sure you have heard it before.....and you should hear it again.....Thank You for serving in the military.

Answer 5

The question you ask, although puzzling, becomes an oxymoron. If you are atheistic, you don't believe in God, or any supreme being. The purpose of Chaplains in the military are to serve God, by ministering to our fellow soldiers. An atheist who doen't believe in God, would not (in theory). Atheism actually is a personal belief, therefore it wouldn't be nessesary to have an "appointed official" to reprsent that belief, as would a priest, Rabbi, or minister.

I , to, have serve my country, during Beirut conficts, Grenada, Faulklin Isles, and Panama...as well as several other engagements too many to count here. My point is this...no matter what an individual believes in, Your beliefs are what counts. By serving your country, potentially giving your life for what is right, just, and for the idealism of freedom, you are doing our country proud.

Sadly, I've seen good men pay an ultimate price for what we all believe in. It breaks my heart; but, I know they paid that price willingly to ensure our freedom....yours and mine.

I hope this brings any amount of comfort to you, and I'm sorry for the loss of your fellow soldiers and friends. Know this: you are supported back home by a country that does believe in what you are doing, and we are all wishing your safe return.

Sincerely,

A proud Veteran

Answer 6

I can only refer to "Padre John" on Guadalcanal. He jumped from foxhole to foxhole, carrying ammo, water, medical supplies, whatever he could, and all the while lending an ear, and giving moral support to "his" boys, while under intense enemy fire. When the engagements would ceased, he gave his heart to his calling visiting not only the wounded, and dying, but to those still on the line. He evangelized from the "front" not the rear; and was an ear to hear, an eye to see.

What we need are some Padre John's.

Post Script:

There is plenty of evidence to support an approximate earth age of 10,000 years; if your not afraid to look, and challenge the academia. You sound as though you have a lack of fear, so do some academic research for yourself. You may find a surprise in your Rice Crispies.

Most important: Keep your head down and your powder dry!

Answer 7

An atheist chaplain would be a contradiction in terms.

While you are certainly entitled to your views you don't need a chaplain to help you through a mental crisis like this. You need someone who can counsel you about confronting death, and a line officer--if he knows his stuff--or a good NCO can do that as well as a chaplain.

Chaplains generally serve the spiritual needs of religious people in their units. Many are well enough versed in other matters to make the leap to more secular counseling, but that is not their mission.

In my military service I generally found Catholic chaplains to be best prepared to meet the needs of less religious members of the military service. Some other chaplains were pretty good as well, but mostly they tended to focus on their denominations and specific concerns of those denominations.

I'm sorry for the obvious sense of loss you feel. Had I been your commander I would have either tried to counsel you myself or to refer you to someone better equipped than that particular chaplain to counsel you.

Answer 8

You can, but I wouldn't go to any chaplain who says it was Gods will!

No it wasn't. He played no role in Bush's decision to go to war, and no decision in fate, often called being at the wrong place at the right time, or vice-versa!

Why does everyone want to blame God?

If it were me I would see a qualified therapist. They can deal with your feelings far better than a chaplain can. They aren't qualified.

Not saying, those who believe all that shouldn't see a chaplain, but he won't be around when the nightmares, panic attacks and PTSD starts! I think the other person needed him more!

Answer 9

I'm an atheist and my mother was an atheist, when she died we couldn't find a way to hold a service for her without a church or some kind of religious ceremony.. She held her atheist beliefs to the end. So we had to have a "person" talk about her life, but we still had to go to a church like funeral building so we could have her cremated. Can't always get away from it.

I know what you mean, but can't walk in your shoes... other than watching a young person die from cancer right to the end.

Sounds like it had a huge impact on you.

take care.

And to anyone who says, my mother would have turned to religion in hard times..you're wrong..she was in a war, she died a hard death, she did not run to religion.

Answer 10

I don't know why their are no atheist Chaplin's in the military but i do know their is a god you don't look out for him but look in side yourself i am a52 year old army vet served 1973 -1976 1979 -1981 i saw some hard times also but you are were you are for a reason maybe you have lost site off why you enlisted in the first place , think back to that time ,why ?
Thank you for your service .
SGT LDC 1/81/ F.A