For people who believe in Conditional Security of the Believer?

Question

Greetings - these questions are for people who believe in the Conditional Security of the Believer - i.e. Armenian theology.

1) When does a Believer lose their salvation? At what point does God say - enough is enough, you've sinned too much off to Hell you go?

2) then What defines salvation? So if a person can lose their salvation then the definition of what a person who believes that a person's security is conditional is different than the definition of what a person who believes in the Eternal Security of the Believer.

3) If you think your salvation is conditional then how do you know for sure that you are for sure going to Heaven? Since all it takes is one sin, right? most people I know are blinded to their own sin, so they are often unaware of sins they are committing, not only that there are sins of omission, things we are supposed to do and did not do, and then there are sins that we commit in our thought lift, and even sins we can commit in our subconscious

So how do you know for 100% certain that you are sin free. Even if you confess everything night and day, don't you risk missing something and that one thing isn't enough?

If you believe in Conditional Security then don't you live in FEAR? that if you didn't have that peace that Jesus died for you, and you have peace that you will be with Him, then you will be constantly worrying about every little thing to try to make sure you never get cast to Hell. But isn't living in Fear sin?
The people I know who believe this live in fear. Maybe not everyone ..

if you believe in Conditional Security aren't you believing that there is something additional required besides Christ's death on the Cross? Are you confusing Salvation and Sanctification? Are you sure that all these verses are being interpreted correctly. I see ways where you could take the Scriptures and build a case either way, but obviously both sides are missing something. what is it? If you believe in Conditional security can you see how the Scripture is rightly used to defend the Eternal Security view? And the other way around? Are you sure about the interpretation? There seems to be things that this view is strongly contradictory.

The things I've heard say that "You shall not surely die" - but then are you saying that Christ's blood isn't enough to keep a person from dying? Was Eve covered with Christ's blood at that time? i.e. was she saved? there's a lot to all this. Nobody is good enough to be saved, we are totally depraved. See what I mean?
Thanks

I personally believe in the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine, but I'm trying to understand for certain. thanks

thanks for the pointers to the web sites

what about "If a man is faithless, He remains faithful for He cannot deny Himself?"

you don't know if they are saved based on their actions alone. The sin that keeps you from Heaven is unbelief.. so if a person was in the Hell's Angels, and he was rough and all, and at that time, he is not of Jesus - and he doesn't believe, and then He believes and then He confesses that Jesus is the Christ - then He is of God's - most likely this man is going to be just as rough as he was before, but He's born again. You either confess Jesus or you don't. It took a while for me to understand that. I
my church just started preaching you can lose your salvation-they say if you don't forgive someone and you die, you go to hell. I can't accept that doctine, and I'm thinking of leaving the church, but I don't want to make a rash decision. I don't want to leave, I like the people. But I can't sit there and listen to that. I don't believe it. There is nothing in me good enough for salvation, it's a free gift. I'll never be good enough. never. It's his blood alone, period.not me

I'm just trying to understand the opposing view. The first Law of Arminius is the law of Free Will - This taught that man, although affected by the Fall, was not totally incapable of choosing spiritual good, and was able to exercise faith in God in order to receive the gospel and thus bring himself into possession of salvation. - and I just don't see how this is true. There is no good in man, and how can we be saved, except Christ save us? Apart from Christ our hearts are set against God and our hearts are bent on sin. "You hath He quickened which were DEAD in trespasses and sins" we were dead to God, and He had to make us alive to Him. There is so much to disprove the first law. So if the first fails then don't they all fail?

hi - I was targeting this question to people who believe in Conditional Security. I think I fully understand and agree with all the arguments listed so far, but what is concerning is that there are opposing arguments that have Scripture to back them up as well. that;s what i wanted to investigate. But thanks to one of the links someone here gave me, I checked out a web site that had both the 5 points of Calvin and Arminius and Arminius believed that Man was good enough to save himself? my goodness, I know that's not true. His whole 5 points are totally in error from my understanding of Scripture. Thanks for the pointer.
But this puts me in a position where I probably need to leave my church because I just found they were preaching from the Arminius point of view. I just can't accept it. I really do want feedback fromt he opposing viewpoint if possible - its funny that people haven't offered their view that believe that.
but that's ok thanks so much everyone

Answer 1

once saved, always saved

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&new_topic=26

EDIT: call me a simple man, but i stay out of "theological" arguments. I believe God has provided enough scripture to prove what His will is for mankind.
Seminary should be spelled "cemetary".

Answer 2

1) When a person becomes a believer, all of their sins are forgiven. The only way to lose that salvation is to turn ones back on God, which is saying that you don't want His salvation.

2) Salvation is given to those who believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, accept Him as their Lord and Savior, repent, and follow Him.

2 Timothy 1:11-13.

Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we also will live with him;
if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
If we are faithless, he will remain faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.


I believe in eternal security of the believer. It is when one stops believing and following Christ that he will lose his salvation.

3) Forgiveness is based on what Jesus did. Not what I do. No, I still continue to sin, consciously and unconsciously, it is no longer about sin. I have been forgiven. I know that my salvation is secure because I know, love and follow Christ as my Lord. He knows that I truly want to please Him.

Additional Details

I'm not sin free. I am a forgiven sinner.

I don't live in Fear because He says that He will never leave me. I belong to Him and I know that I will not leave Him.

We fail, we cannot follow the law to perfection. The law was made to show us that we cannot follow it.

Jesus, came to fulfill the law for us. Jesus is perfect He never sinned. That is how He qualifies for the sacrifice for our sins.

Answer 3

God is love, and another name for love, is charity.

A baptized Christian who ends this life with at least some charity remaining in their soul, has every right to hope to be judged worthy of salvation by Jesus Christ.

Catholics spend a lifetime learning to appreciate the nuances of this system of divine charity, and for most of us, a lifetime is just about what it will take to overcome the problem of sin, with the help of God's grace.

1Co 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
1Co 13:4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil:
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth with the truth:
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1Co 13:8 Charity never falleth away: whether prophecies shall be made void or tongues shall cease or knowledge shall be destroyed.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part: and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child.
1Co 13:12 We see now through a glass in a dark manner: but then face to face. Now I know in part: but then I shall know even as I am known.
1Co 13:13 And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity.

Answer 4

To my knowledge, there is nothing in Christianity that makes a statement than a person can be un-saved. Once you have made the commitment of belief, your soul is saved from Hell. The Bible says that ALL people will be judged for their deeds...and I have to assume that even I, a born again Christian will be judged for mine. Salvation is not conditional....it is a gift from God thru Jesus.

Answer 5

Salvation comes from Jesus Christ only.

Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ.
He anointed us, and put His Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come." (2 Corinthians 1:21,22)

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the Word of Truth, the Gospel of your Salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of His Glory. (Ephesians 1: 13,14)

Jesus died on the cross for past, present, and future sins.

When God looks at us He sees the blood of His Son which covers our sins.
God said our sins are forgiven, never to brought up again.

We are not perfect, we confess our sins to Jesus with a sincere heart.

"My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anybody does sin, we have One Who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning Sacrifice for our sins and not only for ours, but also for the sins of the whole world." (1 John 2: 1,2)

The purpose of John writing this letter was to assure believers we have Eternal security through Jesus Christ.

Answer 6

You're never going to get any serious answers for this question I'm afraid. Just a prediction.
Unfortunately, most Christians in this country can't even tell you the DIFFERENCE between Calvinism and Armenism.
I am more a Calvinist, and I just wanted to share this awesome website with you if you haven't already seen it:
http://www.monergism.com/

Answer 7

If our salvation is by means of religion on my own, how can we provide an explanation for those passages from Scripture? James two:14 " What doth it benefit, my brethren, regardless that a person say he hath religion, and feature no longer works? can religion store him?" James two:17 "Even so religion, if it hath no longer works, is lifeless, being on my own." James two:20 "But wilt thou understand, O useless guy, that religion with out works is lifeless?" James two:24 "Ye see then how that by means of works a person is justified, and no longer by means of religion best." James two:26 "For because the frame with out the spirit is lifeless, so religion with out works is lifeless additionally."

Answer 8

I am not sin free, no human is.I put all my heart and trust in Jesus.