And why aren't any of the multitude of pious Jews who lived prior to Christ canonized? For example, Elijah and Elisha, who performed incredible miracles by the power of God.
A second question for Catholics: do you think God draws similar distinctions? Or is the requirement that a "saint" must have been a Gentile Christian something the Catholic Church decided upon? Why is this practice not considered anti-Semitic?
I'm not trying to pick a fight, but this just seems wrong to me.
2007-03-29 04:18:16 · 9 answers · asked by Suzanne: YPA 7 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
New Catholic, I have searched and all I come up with are "saints" canonized because it is alleged that Jews killed them -- of course, without any substantiation at all. Please, if I'm missing something, educate me by giving me a link.
2007-03-29 04:27:49 · update #1
"Lady Luck," I'm not splitting hairs; but I do believe in calling things as I see them. I'm a Protestant, but I'm not trying to engage in Catholic bashing -- I've asked a perfectly reasonable question.
2007-03-29 04:29:45 · update #2
"Prays toward Funky Town," Elijah and Elisha both performed incredible miracles! Perhaps I'm not understanding what you meant...
2007-03-29 04:31:06 · update #3
"Unity," I guess I just don't understand why St. Agatha, who had her breasts cut off then died in prison, is more worthy of recognition than Elijah. If the Pope is Christ's representative on earth, what the Catholic Church seems to be saying is that the OT saints deserve no recognition.
2007-03-29 04:50:46 · update #4
I don't know the answer, but I would offer this. Doesn't really address Jews, although I think they did once beatify a Jewish woman, after she converted to the Catholic Church (WWII).
The quote below from Augustine defines those who are not within the Catholic Church as heretic, and so clearly ineligible for canonization. For clarification, the definition of "schism" is included.
"We believe also in the holy Church, that is, the Catholic Church. For heretics violate the faith itself by a false opinion about God; schismatics, however, withdraw from fraternal love by hostile separations, although they believe the same things we do. Consequently, neither heretics nor schismatics belong to the Catholic Church; not heretics, because the Church loves God; and not schismatics ..." From Faith and the Creed 10:21, AD 393, Augustine.
Merriam-Webster says that a schism, [Etymology: Middle English scisme, from Anglo-French scisme, cisme, from Late Latin schismat-, schisma, from Greek] is a formal division in or separation from a church or religious body; the offense of promoting schism.
EDIT: I saw the new answer about St. Adam and St. Eve, etc. I searched the catholic.org saints database (below) and I don't find any mentioned in that answer. Michelle, where can I find out about them?
2007-03-29 06:31:27 · answer #1 · answered by cmw 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Well a Saint is a Catholic miracle worker whose miracles have been proven to show the miracles of Christ, bring glory to the church and renewal of the church, so being a Christian seems to be a requirement. Further, being a Catholic is a requirement because it seen as a way to renew the Catholic work through miracles, furthering the Church in areas where it wasn't before and standing up for what the Catholic church beleives.
So if that means it is anti-semitic and every other religion than it is. Since other religions don't believe that Christ exists as the Son of God. Any events prior to Christ really would be hard to use as being a glory to Christ works. Other religions can certainly create their own saints or miracle workers, or label their faith heroes anyway they choose. Why should the Catholic church have to recognize all good deed doers?
Edit: - Possibly the reason for not recognizing the holy people, Elijah and Elisha from the OT is that it was from a time before Christ. The reason for Agatha to become a saint was due to her being martyred and providing a mircale after her death. It is not enough for the saint to perform mircales during life, but one also has to be performed after death.
2007-03-29 04:36:26 · answer #2 · answered by Unity 4 · 1⤊ 1⤋
Typical...to use your word: "tripe", Suzanne.
I truly doubt from your previous responses in regards to Catholicism that you enter into this question with humility.
There are MULTITUDES of pious Jews that are canonized. The first is Adam and Eve, they are the first Jews. They are saints, their feast day is December 24th.
Elijah is canonized, his feast day is July 10th. and Elisha's is June 14th. In fact, this practice came from a long-standing tradition in the Jewish faith of honoring prophets and holy people with shrines. (Something you should 'supposedly' know already). There is Abraham, who Christ himself says "Before Abraham, I am", clearly showing that Abraham is a saint in heaven. Let's not forget Dismas, the robber who was next to Christ during their crucifixtions, and Christ himself promised him he'd enter into "Paradise", therefore a saint by act of Christ himself.
You seem to be mistaken on what constitutes a 'saint' in the Catholic church. Just because there is no canonization process does not mean that they are not saints. Canonization does not "make" a person a saint; it recognizes what God has already done. So while every person who is canonized is a saint, not every holy person has been canonized.
Oh, not trying to pick a fight. But before your question and the basis for your 'knowledge' just seems wrong to me.
Edit to respond to CMW (x2): in regards to Saints Adam and Eve they, along with Abraham, do not NEED canonical status to be declared saints, this is for anyone that is in heaven. Even still, the fact that it is in the Roman Missal is enough. However here are the links:
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sainte15.htm for Eve
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sainta17.htm for Adam
2007-03-30 08:30:58 · answer #3 · answered by Michelle_My_Belle 4 · 2⤊ 1⤋
Pastor Billy says: Catholicism 101
point #1 all those already in heaven are saints, Elijah for one does not require canonisation .
point #2 all martyrs who die for the Christian faith are saints
point #3 there are many unknown saints hence All saints day
I think Sue just has an axe to grind she does that well.
2007-03-30 02:58:31 · answer #4 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 1⤋
No miracles. Look to what Christ says about saints. If they fit the bill, they would.
2007-03-29 04:27:14 · answer #5 · answered by great gig in the sky 7 · 0⤊ 1⤋
Do you want to be canonized by the way they aint anti semitic i suggest u deal and talk about real issues stop splitting hairs
2007-03-29 04:24:24 · answer #6 · answered by ladyluck 6 · 2⤊ 2⤋
Jesus Christ isn't canonized!
Why don't you ask your church to start canonizing OT saints?
Shouldn't you be working?
2007-03-29 04:35:15 · answer #7 · answered by ! 6 · 0⤊ 3⤋
Are you sure that they cannot be canonized?
You might check here:
www.Catholic.com
Peace!
2007-03-29 04:21:21 · answer #8 · answered by C 7 · 1⤊ 0⤋
If they can then why aren't they?
2007-03-29 04:24:29 · answer #9 · answered by Quantrill 7 · 1⤊ 1⤋