What does a moral atheist have to lose anyway?

Question

(yeah, yeah, I know, It's Pascal's wager, sorry for this question)

Rev 20 talks about "White Throne Judgement", which in my views simply means this:

**When you accept Jesus into your heart, you win a ticket to Heaven, no matter what. It's a free ticket.

**When you don't accept Jesus, you'll go to the "White Throne Judgement" and God will judge you on your works, your deeds.

This actually means that all that horrible Christian talk about 'believe or end up in Hell' is complete nonsense. The people saying that should try and read their own book a little better.

If there is a god, then the only two choices for a moral atheist are acceptance by a moral god or refusal by an immoral god.

Nobody wants to spend eternity with an immoral god, right? And if we are to be judged anyway, what better way than on our deeds?

Answer 1

I've been aware of this but wasn't sure how to put it - but you put it in the right words. It's carefully written.

This video corresponds exactly with what you're saying:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOIkDHVPvsk

Answer 2

Rev. 20:4 "Then I saw thrones; those who sat on them were entrusted with judgment. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image nor had accepted its mark on their foreheads or hands. They came to life and they reigned with Christ for a 1000 yrs." ---- These are the righteous, the saints that are being talked about. They are in white robes and will assist Jesus in His final judgment of the rest of us.

After Jesus and the righteous reign on earth for 1000yrs, He will raise the dead. This is the 1st resurrection. In Rev. 20:7-10, It talks about Satan being released after the 1000 yr reign by Jesus and Satan and his demons going to the 4 corners of the earth to deceive the dead that have been raised. The dead that have now all been raised from death, have the free-will to either believe in Satan and the anti-christ or to believe in Jesus. This is where faith, again, comes in. If during your first life you had full faith, you will have full faith this time and will not be deceived by the anti-christ. If you didn't have faith before or had some doubts or tried different religions to see which one was the right one, you might possibily be deceived by the anti-christ after the 1st resurrection. If you are deceived and follow the anti-christ and Satan, you go to hell with them, no matter what your good deeds were and how many you had. This judgment is all about faith.

Rev. 20: 11-15 is what you are talking about the large white throne. In this throne is the Father. The book of life has teh righteous ones that Jesus had the names of to tell His Father, and He promised in Rev. 3 never to erase. The righteous earned Heaven already. The remaining of the dead, the ones that had faith, are judged according to their deeds.

So you see, when you study the entire chapter 20 and the whole book of Genesis and Revelations, you will see that there are 2 resurrections, 2 deaths, 2 judgments. Frist is by faith. The unfaithful go to hell. Then the faithful are judged again in regards to their deeds while they were on earth. That is why the Catholic Church teachs that is it by faith AND good deeds that you can enter the Kingdom of God. Not by faith alone and not by good deeds alone.

Answer 3

You have misinterpreted the verses, Rev 20:11-15

Actually the white throne judgment using works and deeds is to determine the exact degree of punishment in Hell for the **unbelievers**. NO believers are being judged here. You have not correctly understood the verses in question, sir.

Just as there are degrees of reward in Heaven, so are there in Hell. The works or deeds of the unbeliever will determine the degree of damnation they must eternally endure.

Answer 4

There is a critical misunderstanding here. Heaven is not a place where you can be independent of God. Quite the opposite, it is a place of close communion/fellowship with your Creator.

If you want to be moral or immoral or whatever without God in your life, the key factor is that you want to be independent of God. If you wish to be independent of God, God will grant your wish. There is no place in Heaven (perhaps no place at all) for those who wish to be independent of God. Jesus said that our very existance can be likened to a branch of a vine; you cannot have life if you are cut off from the vine.

Your behavior, whether you think it to be moral or immoral, is not the foundational issue.

Answer 5

There is no judge. There is no jury. There is no choice between a moral or immoral god. I regret that I'm so terribly tired of all of this, that everyone needs a "daddy" to set up the rules, punish or reward. I am not going to hell, & I am not going to heaven. (I don't think I like the "idea" of either one!) I have to say that your questions are far too "logical" for R&S. You will NOT find logic here!

Answer 6

and I'm sure someone is going to say this..but..
"how can an atheist be moral since he has no moral barometer since he's already dismissed God"..

anyway in regards to pascal, I realize he's considered a philospher etc and his speculations of "well if you do believe and are wrong you've lost nothing, but if you dont beleive are and wrong your hosed (my own paraphrase)" is not that indifferent to what "preachers" say.

Unfortunatly Pascal only delves on "Christianity" but..Christianity is the result of European "interpretation" of a text that has already been used by countless other religions. My own creedo for dismissing christianity (and not so much the supreme being), is because LIKE other religions..."IT's MY way or the Highway", and blind faith in you saying "I'm right and your wrong" stands in the way of ALL things "human nature" (the ability to think and choose for oneself).

Anyway, an atheist CAN be moral and believe in the rules that make a person a Moral person. You DONT need a moral compass/barometer in the form of someone called God/Allah/Jupiter/Zeus...etc..

rosbif hit it right on....and I've never examined this issue from that perspective. you may not believe, but if you hold to the ideals of what (bible thumpers think) God intends humans to be/do AND if God is the final judge of all things related to our actions..then you have nothing to worry about. For after all, God if he does exist DID give you the ability to think for yourself.

In other words....living the way "He/She" intends you to live and NOT believing is a SAFER bet then believing and breaking every rule He/She gave you!

Answer 7

You seem to be that needs to read the book a little better.
There are two separate judgments. You mentioned the Great White thrown Judgment, that is for believers only. It is where we receive our crowns to lay at Jesus feet. The other is the Judgment seat of Christ. This is for non believers, and those who claimed to be Christians and had only a head knowledge, not a relationship with Jesus (heart knowledge). This judgment leads to Hell (eternal separation from God).

Answer 8

The moral atheist has everything to lose. Know Jesus as savior, get heaven, don't know Jesus, get hell, it is just that simple. Your works MIGHT get you a lesser punishment, but punishment none the less.
You only wish that what Christians say is complete non-sense. You are using your own reasoning, trying to make your rules of reason fir the situation. It doesn't work that way. The "game" is played by God's rules, and His alone. Got Jesus, got heaven, don't have Jesus, got hell. Play by God's rules, you win, play by your rules, you lose, horribly.

Answer 9

my philosophy on life is to treat others how i would want to be treated. i will gossip and gossip less. I will live a happy life with less complaining and go for the things that i want in life. I don't need to point the fingers about how people are going to hell. notice that a lot of christians are so unhappy. I refuse to be like the majority of this nation, constantly complaining about things that they could change and relying on a higher power to do so for them. When I wake up in the morning and go to bed at night and throughout my day i want to know that I have done the right things. also, i think atheist are more open minded people.

Answer 10

I will do my best to always do the right things and to make the world and everyone around me a better. I will do this because I want to be a good human being. That's it, not cause I want to please some god or live in heaven. Why can't people just see it, that's all religion does... It is a crutch for people to feel better about themselves and a way to control society... don't do these things or you'll go to hell. It's a bunch of fear based crap. Goes back to the basics of all good story telling... Good vs. Evil.

Answer 11

It is better to be judged on judgment than deeds, as judgment is the cause of deeds. Since any theist's judgment is impaired, I'd rather be an atheist. Your point beginning with "If there is a god, ..." is well taken, but one ultimately must judge on the evidence, and since there is none to support any theory of god, the only sensible thing to do is to not believe in one.