For those who take Psalm 137:9 out of context?

Question

Here's a little bible lesson for you.
The Babylonians were very cruel in their capture of the jewish people. They took jewish infants and smashed their bodies against rocks. The psalm is all about the lament over what the babylonians did to the jewish people and their cries for revenge.Here's the context:.
"1. By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat, we also wept when we remembered Zion.
2. On willows in its midst we hung our harps.
3. For there our captors asked us for words of song and our tormentors [asked of us] mirth, "Sing for us of the song of Zion."
4. "How shall we sing the song of the Lord on foreign soil?"
5. If I forget you, O Jerusalem, may my right hand forget [its skill].
6. May my tongue cling to my palate, if I do not remember you, if I do not bring up Jerusalem at the beginning of my joy.
7. Remember, O Lord, for the sons of Edom, the day of Jerusalem, those who say, "Raze it, raze it, down to its foundation!"

8. O Daughter of Babylon, who is destined to be plundered, praiseworthy is he who repays you your recompense that you have done to us.

9. Praiseworthy is he who will take and dash your infants against the rock.

I think it's time to let this one go. If you want to find horrors, there are plenty of them. This one just isn't about telling parents to kill their children and be happy about it.

Chippy, are you being "willfully ignorant" on this? It's obvious that the psalmist is jewish and is singing about a curse against the babylonians.. what don't you get?

Zero, that is in jewish scripture.. their god is not the same one as the christian god, no matter how you slice it. They told the good, the bad and the ugly of their history with their god.. the old and new testaments just don't jive.

Answer 1

Kallan, I'm going to go against the tide here.

You are right that context is everything in making sense of texts. That is exactly the point that critics of fundamentalist religion are trying to make when we pull this particular verse, and dozens like it, from the Old Testament. And there are a few in the New Testament, too.

The Old Testament is a human story, written by humans about human experience, including immense human suffering, and the very human desire for revenge against tormenters - in this case it was a sharp rebuke to the captors trying to humilate the Jewish slaves further by demanding they entertain them. Basically, they're saying, "You want a song? Here's a song!"

The fact that much of the Hebrew epic is couched in terms of how they saw their relationship with their God does not negate the fact this is a human story. If anything, it makes the psychology that much more vivid.

My problem is with those who would deny human responsibility for the sentiments of the Bible and instead claim the words as the literal words of God, and of eternal and unquestionable rightness. This is not only absurd, it denies the fundamental humanity inherent in this very human work.

Answer 2

Skeptics nit-pick at the Bible like this all of the time. If this is the best that they can come up with after 2000+ years, then obviously, they have only straws to grasp at.

I don't think that the skeptics even read their responses --usually they are posting so many questions at once, then they can't possibly be reading what people write, and they do repeat postings of the exact same stuff that another skeptic posted the day before.

They are not looking for any real answers; they are just trying to rationalize their immature rebellious attitude.

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Proverbs 18:2 (NIV)
A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.

===edit==
In response to "Sonja A" 's question above, I think that it is obvious that this is poetic language, not a suggestion or a command (that is what the world "psalm" means-- it is a song). The writer is obviously whishing in the abstract that the Babylonians get payback for what they have done.

===edit2===

In response to "Gastounet" & "Chippy", above, the 2 Kings passage has also been explained a hundred times before. When God stands by and lets people get mugged or murdered, people say God doesn't care. The one time that god does intervene, and save an old man from being attacked by a gang of teenagers, people say that God is cruel for protecting the old prophet. Skeptics will never be satisfied with any explanation, no matter how logical, and no matter how silly their own position sounds.

For those wanting a full explaination, check out the article at the link below:

Answer 3

Interesting ...I just had Bob Marlee flash into my mind.

Also read The Chalice and The Blade if you haven't all ready. Perspectives outside of Judaism and the Christian Bible are interesting when discussing historical information about the movement of the tribes into occupied territories. Quite a bit of genocidal behavior back then apparently blessed by God. Not Christ. But never foreget the bloody crimes of the church of Christ.

Christians don't usually study Judaism. If they do it isn't with a Rabbi. Perspective can be everyting.

The Old Testament is not the Torah.

Ignorence is not bliss. In fact, it causes far more grief than anything else. Historically speaking.

Peace among Nations. Peace and good will to all. Tough sometimes, cough , cough but gotta keep on trying.

Interesting question...statement.

Answer 4

What's the question? What's the problem?

The Babylonians captured Israel and were cruel captors, yes. And the Israelites mourned the sad state of affairs they found themselves in. They called those who did the same thing to the daughters of Babylon praiseworthy. Babylon fell in 607 BCE to Darius the Mede and Cyrus the Persian, and it was Cyrus who issued the decree allowing the Israelites to return to Jerusalem after 70 years of captivity and rebuild the temple.

You're not the only one who has Bible lessons under their belt Kallan :0)

Answer 5

I know I should not be surprised that there are actually ppl out there who think that is what this passage is talking about, but I am anyway. Good grief!!! How stupid to think something so goofy!! Some will twist anything to try and make GOD sound cruel.

Answer 6

No no, I get your lesson, I just wanted some Christians to explain it to me. Few did.

It seems a very strange story to include in a book supposedly advocating LOVING they neighbor and enemy, though. Seems a bit contradicting to sing the praises of forgiveness and seeking not revenge while simultaneously including this bit as though it's perfectly ok for such a revengeful sentiment to be thought scripture-worthy, considering the supposed over-all intent of the book.

*edit* That's NOT what many Christians say. And since when did Christians believe in two different Gods? I've heard many claim theirs is an infallible and unchanging deity. How does THAT jive with their own holy book?? It just doesn't make any sense. You can't put together, say, a college text book from two conflicting sources and also claim that it's a flawless compilation. Likewise, it doesn't make sense to smash together such radically different points of view and then say "there is no conflict". Either God is unchanging or he's not. Either God is capriciously cruel and simultaneously compassionate, or he's not. Either he was one way at one point and another way later, or he's always been one way. They CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

Answer 7

This was a stiff-necked generation of people. The psalm is reflecting what they felt, maybe even what David felt,sometimes the urge for revenge comes before forgiveness, even now days.

Answer 8

Hello, I appreciate your efforts on this one, and I hadn't heard of this scripture to take it out of context. But now I am confused, why is it ok to kill the innocent children of your torturers because they kill your innocent children? I don't see how it's ok to kill infants in God's name no matter what their parents did.
Edit: Thank you for the explanation Randy. It does make sense for the grieving to be angry.

Answer 9

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

Answer 10

Thank you for putting that in the context it was intended for.
God bless you.