How Much do you love your country?

Question

Look at the days we are living in. Wars and Rumors of wars. If we found ourselves in a huge bloodbath with maybe Iran or anyone else do you love your country enough to serve it if there was a US draft? This is the most freeest country out there that i know of. Many people since the birth of the United States have gave their lives and shed their blood for you and me. Thats right for YOU AND ME!! even if you did not agree with the war would you serve your country for the youth and young ones we have today? I love this country we are the freeest in the world. Maybe our freedoms our being slowly taken away but still we still are the freeest! And if you would not serve your country why wouldent you?

Answer 1

Thanks Friend----------we had better right now start coming together as AMERICANS and stop this incessant bickering among our selves----please read this:


THE WAR

Please take the time to read the essay below by Dr. Chong. It is without a doubt the most


This WAR is for REAL!
Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired
Tuesday, July 12, 2005.

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most
serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine
(which includes WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who
think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start?
Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United States is concerned is
1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked?
Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the
administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault
either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents
or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

3. Who were the attackers?
In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%.

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?
Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian
population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was
also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or
you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political
reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (see http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm...

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million
holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the
Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy
about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world
- German, Christian or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way --
their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the
peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many
peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim
leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements --
killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the
choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?
There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists.
Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There
is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting. So with
that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?

2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions. We can definitely lose
this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many
of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads,
bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post Vietnam. This is as far
from the truth as one can get.

What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but
rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just
wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us,
over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorists to attack us, until we were
neutered and submissive to them.

We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for
the reason that they would see, we are impotent and cannot help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier
for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong
for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed
their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be
done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and
realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists
without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and
fading fast!

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know
it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we
can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else?

The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed
to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the
costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning.
And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves
by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full
support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to
be divided, there is no way that we can win!

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death
seriousness of this situation.

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the
terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary
Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously?
This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we
have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights
temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.

And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII,
and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and
all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of
those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost
seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they
are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless,
that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It
concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the
treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We
have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war,
by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few
months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands,
cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing
with Saddam Hussein.

And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own
people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters, who recently
were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq.

And still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all
news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought
and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not
burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading
them, but "humiliating" them.
Can this be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense.
If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the
seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the
disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look
like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the
real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say,
this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply
means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude of the situation we are in, and
into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.

Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL
non-Muslims -- not just in the United States, but throughout the world.

We are the last bastion of defense. We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.'
That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so
good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us,
and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world!

We can't!

If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country
in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech,
freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone --
let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in
one single way that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated
in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders
will allow history books to be written or read.

If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in
the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and
continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be
fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to
weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force.
Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece.

And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide that they
abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power.
They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing
each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing
from the politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way
that we can lose. I hope the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation
we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about!
Do whatever you can to preserve it.

After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but our children, our
grandchildren, our country and the world.

Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that includes the Politicians
and media of our country and the free world!

Answer 2

I wouldn't wait for the draft.

Yes, we may be looking at a conflict with Iran. Yes, we're in a long conflict in Iraq. But this is the first time in recent history the Middle East actually has a decent shot at peace.

Think about it, haw many true enemies do we have left in the Middle East? For all their moaning about how President Bush has hurt the world's view of the US, democrats and liberals never talk about this. Libya, no longer a threat. Iraq, no longer a threat if we can stabilize the country and leave Iraqis with a true democracy. Egypt, no longer a threat and trying to be a responsible, regional influence. Afghanistan, no longer a threat as long we can prevent a resurrection of the Taliban. Kuwait, friendlier than ever. Saudi Arabia, friendly than ever. Yemen, cracking down on their own terrorist networks. South Yemen, actually renewed diplomatic ties. Pakistan, maybe not the best ally in the world, but certainly better than France. Israel, alliance just as strong.

Who's left? Iran, that's it. That's all that's left. Remove Iran and you remove the single largest destabilizing force in the Middle East and the world. Sure, somebody might take their place. But you still have to try. You can try military action, you can try all out war, you can try political isolation, you can try economic isolation. But you have to try.

There is a purpose for us being in the Middle East. There is a purpose for us being in Iraq. And if successful, it could be the single most important thing our generation does.

However, if an all out war is in the cards, the longer we wait, the worse it will be.

Answer 3

I agree with Rick. I got about 5 lines into EZMZ's rant before I realized that I would be better off scrolling past all the crap and seeing if anyone said something useful to say. No I would not serve. Why? Hidden agendas. And, considering wars are being fought politcally and religiously, instead of being fought by the decisions of the men on the field, I'm not in a hurry to sign myself over to this nonsense we are calling war.

I think America once stood for something good. Now? I would be somewhat embarrassed to be a tourist in another country. We're getting fatter, stupider, and farther away each day from what this country was when it was "born."

Do I support the troops? Hell yeah. Which is why they should get out of Iraq. There is no, and never was, a need to go there. But what are we going to do now? "Oh hey......uh....yeah we are gonna get going now. I know we kinda destroyed the place, but don't worry I'm sure we'll send over way too much money and then wonder why the states are having budget problems."

Answer 4

I would not willingly serve in the military to fight in a foreign nation. I would rather spend three years in prison. Doesn't matter how much I love my country, I won't aid in the killing and destruction of a war we started for no other reason than business and ego.

Now, if some foreign power invaded the US mainland, I would consider joining the military to offer them my skills (though none of that would include actually fighting). And that would still depend on the context.

Yes, many people have given blood for this country. And in the past, the causes have been worthy ones. WW2, WW1, The Civil War, The Revolutionary War, all fought for our freedom.

But this fighting in the Middle East is not a fight for our freedom. It's a fight for corporate America to get richer. And what are they going to spend this new money on? Starting new wars. And buying expensive, useless junk.

Answer 5

I love this country. In the short time we have been around we have done so much. I do most likely plan to join the army, I want to be an officer.
JOHN STUART MILL:
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
Do you know that in Rome in times of crisis they would revert to a temporary dicatorship so that all resources were given to the war effort? I think this makes a lot of sense so long as when order is restored it becomes a republic again. When our country is in dire need it is our duty to serve and fight, to do otherwise is not only cowardice, it is traitorous to our way of life as patriots.

Answer 6

What a crock. All the lives lost in Veit Nam were for nothing.
All the lives lost in Iraq were for nothing.

If the war is unjust you say I should go kill anyway. What kind of aberrant church and country do you belong to.

Warren D -- I am sure you are still vital and wrong too.

Wish B - you are an informed college guy and you still want to go fight. What is your problem? Hell, quit now and go! Don't hide behind "you're in college - GO.

EZMZ
Chong sounds a bit of an idiot. Of course the war is real.. Thet're blowing each other up. 600,000 Iraqis. -- http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/11/iraq.deaths/index.html

USA Deaths --
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/09/03/death.toll/

Chong -- "the most serious threat in our history" Where does this dude come from? Even you must know that this is crazy.
Iraq was invaded by the US and friends after 9/11 but not in search of al Queda but in search of WMD that the US government knew were not their - they truly insulted all the people that died in 9/11 by taking on Iraq and not putting all their weight behind the search for al Queda.

The US has already lost. There were no WMD =- there was no nuclear threat (the US knew already that Saddam had refused the help by Khan of Pakistan to help with nuclear armament), the were no chemical or biological war agents(the troops were not equipped to handle such a war). In other words the war was false and still not declared. The US has dumped Saddam but has not gotten anywhere close to liberation unless that is what you call liberation - a civil war.

John G -- enlist now!

Chong -- you are a very deceptive man. Until the attacks on the US at home have started other countries have had little chance to repond to American terrorism around the world.

Chong -- I read your insight on the world but you change reality for your own purpose. You are either a very dangerous man creating an idea that fits in with many people who are bent in your direction (something akin to Hitler, Pol Pot, etc) or you are quite insane.

Chong -- looking at your post once again I can not help but relate you to a paranoid religious fanatic.

Nekkra F -- it is not a service to your country to go to war obligenly for something that is wrong. I think you are far less than patriotic to go to because of the pipe dream of a quite foolish president, You know many Germans fought for the same reasons you believe in. and you seem to think they were right.

lavidasigue40 -- read his stuff before you condemn me, lavidasigue40 -- you are a total (*^$ hole.

Answer 7

Of course I'd serve my country. Maybe our government has some issues, but we have the most amazing people in the world. There's a reason that the American people have invented and done so much, and that's never going to change.

Answer 8

I love my country. I have fought for my country in far away lands. I would do it again. I have supported our troops as a civilian in far away lands and I would do that again too. There is no sacrifice too small or too large, our country and our military deserve everything we can give them.

For all the mongoloids that say "I would not join the military unless our country was invaded", YOU NEED TO WAKE THE HELL UP. Helllloooo !!! It's already happened. We've been invaded by terrorists. They've blown up our buildings and killed our brothers and sisters. They are living among us now, waiting for their next order to attack. Ever heard of sleeper cells? "Noooo, that could never happen to us", right? Wrong! Get with the program, support your troops, do your service for your country, and quit you're complaining.

Someone said "I won't fight for someone that has never fought". What a load of horse crap. Soldiers fight for every American. Not every American has served, and not every one that served has fought. Grow up, grow a pair, and step up.

Answer 9

The idealogical idea of serving our country has and forever will be the ultimate honor and possible sacrifice... however, how many more wars based on public oppression are we going to attend.

Diplomacy never ends... and it should never turn into retalliation tactics... nomatter how bad the hurt... compromise dwells in the midst of want.

Answer 10

That the draft should be debated at all in the councils of a free government is cause of dismay. The question is nothing less than whether the most essential rights of personal liberty shall be surrendered and despotism embraced in its worst form. – Daniel Webster

Answer 11

I love freedom, too, but I hate unjust warmongering. There is no reason why the U.S. should fight Iran. I would not fight for a group of old men who never fought in a war themselves, but who want the rest of us to die for their schemes. False appeals to patriotism are no excuse to invade a foreign land and kill innocent people who are not a threat to this country.