wording this carefully, I’ve asked it a few times and it always comes out wrong or is mis-interpreted.?

Question

First of all, disagree with any of these facts?:

-God allows humans to suffer pain.
-God posseses Ultimate and Complete Power.
-God does not think pain is a good thing.

Ultimate power would suggest that God can do absolutely anything. i.e He creates all the rules. Rules of Logic, Rules of Physics, etc.

God does not think pain is a good thing, yet he allows humans to suffer pain.

He does this because he wants to build our character, he wants our nature to reflect his.

This means he is following a rule.
The rule is we cannot build this character without pain.
Which means he made a rule for himself that means he has to allow pain to exhist.
If he has Ultimate power why?

An answer is what does good mean if there is no evil, how can we have love without hate. We can't, because of the laws of logic that God made. Why would he?

one answer ia that the pain we experience seen in proper perspective is so minor that it means nothing.
How do we explain the pain that Jesus experienced?

Answer 1

Well the major point I disagree with is that "God doesn't think pain is a good thing". In fact he sees pain as necessary. There are many bible verses talking about that you must suffer in the name of your faith.

Popular adaptation is that God promised a safe landing, he did not promise a smooth flight.

Everyone in the bible that is considered a "hero" suffered a great deal of pain. Slavery to walking across deserts for 40 years. He tested Job and sent Satan to test Jesus as well. He sent Jesus to suffer for our sins. There is no "hero" figure in the bible that didn't have a horrible life. That seems to have been demanded by God. Without evil, there can be no good. Without pain, there can be no pleasure.

Why did he make humans so that they have to have opposites? Is that the question? B/c our nature is basically competitive. We strive for the best and have that need for recognition. (christianity needs the idea of heaven as the recognition) Why do you care if you come in 1st place if everyone gets a trophy? If there was merely "great job" and "fabulous job", how would society be able to work? You would have no way of knowing a person's individual skills since they would all wish to be doctors and no way to know who was a doctor that would actually save your life. Society would never have the menial positions performed and therefore we would have no society.

As you said--the pain we experience must be seen in proper perspective and means nothing. The pain Jesus experienced means nothing. He knew exactly why he was doing it, what the reward was and had very limited life of pain compared to many other people. He didn't suffer a long terminal disease like MS. Much of his life he was free to do what he pleased and was treated like a king. And he already knew what was waiting.

There would be no point in creating the world--we would just be all angels in heaven--if he created the world so that nothing could ever go wrong. And our natures are such that when luck is with us, we take it for granted. We cast our eyes towards heaven when our heads hang down towards the ground.

Answer 2

I suppose that only God can give you a complete answer. But consider this: if you could build character without suffering, then what would God use as a justification for giving you a reward in Heaven? If everything came easy, then God and God alone gets the credit for your good character, since you really did nothing to contribute to your own development.

You might also like the article at the link below.

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Also consider what David was saying here. Love requires some effort or sacrifice; otherwise it is not love. A gift that costs you nothing is not a real gift:

1 Chronicles 21:24 (NIV)
But King David replied to Araunah, "No, I insist on paying the full price. I will not take for the LORD what is yours, or sacrifice a burnt offering that costs me nothing."

Answer 3

Prior to Jesus being born, I wonder how many people prayed, "God, how can you possibly know... pain?"

Enter Jesus. There had to be "God, the man" so there would be an experiential quality to "God, the creator."

But free will and consequence is an answer in some ways too.

If God removes pain (like nerve endings?), how do we experience cause and effect in a way that will protect the self? I wouldn't want 'pain' removed from my reality because then I would be more likely to make fatal mistakes.

Good question... makes ya think.

Answer 4

When nature and logic are taken into acct, it should be obvious that there cannot be a single creator.
If God was a perfect INDIVIDUAL, why is there so much duality in everything? If Gos was perfect, why was anything created? How are we to make a comparison of pain against something we have not experienced by any of our senses?

Answer 5

May I recommend an excellent book of the subject which will explain it all. (No way I can fit it in a YA answer). It is called "The Problem of Pain" by CS Lewis. A small paperbook that you can read in a couple hours, it is taken from a radio talk Lewis gave. It uses logics and reasoning - similar to what you have listed above - to deal with the whole issue of pain. (I think Lewis may quote the Bible twice in the whole book).

With the keen intelligence your question indicates, I really think you will like the book.

Answer 6

Let's begin with looking at your "facts."

"God allows humans to suffer pain" will do for a start.

We must first agree that there is an entity called "God" and that this entity "allows humans to suffer pain."

There is no conclusive or even persuasive proof that "God" exists, so it is not possible to agree with the idea that this entity which may or may not be has attributes such as the capacity to allow people to suffer pain.

Answer 7

-God allows humans to suffer pain. TRUE
-God posseses Ultimate and Complete Power. TRUE
-God does not think pain is a good thing. FALSE

James 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.

1 Peter 4:13 but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation.

Answer 8

Ah yes, the ol' problem of suffering. There simply is no good answer to this one - or not that I've discovered anyway. I certainly don't think that God is trying to "build up our character". But here's an article by Fr Giles Fraser of Putney, who gives a rather good answer to those who see the problem of suffering as a case against God.

Answer 9

Pain is a mystery to most people.

I interviewed someone who experienced a serious and totally unexpected medical trauma that resulted in protracted excruciating pain, coupled with total paralysis, and near total mental incoherence.

No one expected him to live. No one could communicate with him, and no one knew the agony he was experiencing, at the time.

But he surivived, and eventually recovered, and now he speaks to church groups about his ordeal.

I asked him to give me the two minute version of his talk, and he summed it all up by saying that suffering was a gift from God.

As for the pain Jesus experienced, that was simply part of the price he paid for opposing the depraved forces of evil that were arrayed against him.

For the Son of God, his entire earthly existence was likely just one protracted ordeal, as the Judea of those times certainly had much more in common with hell, than heaven, especially for one who came from heaven, in the first place.

If Jesus had given in to the pain and quit, any time prior to Calvary, he could have certainly saved himself, but then Satan would have prevailed, and we would all still be trapped in our sins.

In that respect, Jesus' pain and suffering was also a gift from God ... something he gave us voluntarily, out of his great love for us, even though his death, at the hands of Satan and his minions, was the only absolutely essential element of our redemption.

And in the end, God the Father was so pleased with Jesus' faithfullness and fortitude, that he credited humanity with his righteousness, appointed Jesus as the new head of all mankind, and agreed to offer forgiveness of our sins, in his "honor".

So, suffering is not meaningless after all!

Answer 10

Why are you blaming God for something he has nothing to do with in this physical world, it is man that allows and creates pain and suffering in the world not God, to believe that God is the creator of all the physical ailments man endures is simply asinine thinking.