For Jewish answerers here, I'm very curious to know your opinion?

Question

Today, Reuters announced that The Jewish Theological Seminary in NY will admit gays and lesbians into its Rabbinic studies program:

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2007-03-26T193707Z_01_N26427899_RTRUKOC_0_US-GAY-JEWS.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

How did Judaism transition away from passages such as Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them"? I see a similar movement within Christianity and am interested to know whether the reasoning is similar or dissimilar.

Thanks for your input!

Quantrill, that's what I thought about Orthodox Jews, but I've seen several articles regarding a rise of homosexuality among the orthodoxy. Here's one:

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/history_community/Jewish_World_Today/RenewalandSpirit/GLBT/His_OrthGay_Grossman.htm

Answer 1

How did the lesbians get off scot free?

Answer 2

There is a big difference between one's orientation and one's actions in Judaism.

Yes, the Torah prohibits the act of homosexual sex. A Jewish man who commits the practice is commiting a serious sin. But there is a difference between committing the sin of homosexual sex and having homosexual feelings. Having those feeling doesn't mean that you have to act on them. Having homosexual feelings should not disqualify someone from taking part in Jewish life. Jewish authorities in general see homosexuality as an emotional disorder that can be overcome with time, effort, and healing. Hopefully, rabbinical study will help these people recover from whatever pain they have that is causing them to have this problem.

The problem is that announcing homosexual orientation publicly helps legitimize the action, and that is my fear. It seems to me that the announcement without asking for help implies consent or intention to the act. It also confuses the issue because of the implication that the act is condoned. Hopefully it will not be.

Answer 3

This is a point of great disagreement among commandment-observing Jews. What the Conservative movement has pointed out here is that the restriction is on a specific act, not on having feelings. Judaism is very clear that your actions are more important than your feelings, or even your beliefs; as in the case of charity, which is required in a specific percentage of income regardless of whether you feel generous.
In the case of homosexuality, in the bible many sexual acts that are forbidden are those that were used as part of idolatrous worship. What is forbidden according to traditional interpretation here (and there are other ways it could be interpreted) is, specifically, anal sex, and being homosexual does not mean you necessarily engage in sodomy. In fact, many gay men do not. What the Conservative movement did (and not all the rabbis agreed here) was to say that being homosexual has no bearing on your ability to be a teacher and leader in the community (i.e. a rabbi), and we don't make any assumptions about their bedroom habits, just as we don't assume that any rabbinical student is having premarital sex. Individual rabbis and congregations can decide whether they feel comfortable hiring a gay rabbi or performing same-sex ceremonies.

Answer 4

Judaism has not transitioned. Humans are subject to frailties, and the conservative (non-observant) movement, like the reforms, humanists, and others who do not observe the Law given to us by Hashem, are losing membership - so they will do anything and say anything to maintain numbers so they can pretend to be a political pressure group.

I would like to point out that the reference you gave is from Moment magazine, a journal of the conservative and reform movements. They hoped to ease their consciences by claiming that perversion is becoming commonplace among Torah observant Jews; that the religious are just like the irreligious. Sorry, Charlie (or should it be "sorry, Chaim?"). It is not so.

Not to say that there are not homosexuals among religious people - there may well be, but to be a Rabbi, a teacher, or a Rav, a community leader, one must be frum, shomer Shabbos, and all around a light unto the nations as well as our own. Someone who is actively homosexual is disobeying the Law, choosing his/her own physical pleasure over G-d's words - hardly a light unto anyone! I would imagine that someone who felt homosexual inclinations, but controlled them, could theoretically get a smicha - but why would they put so much temptation in their path? I don't know that at seminary a student is asked, "do you want to lie with the same sex?" But if someone spoke out about these desires, I am sure they would be encouraged to study some other program.

It would not disqualify them from being a Torah-observant Jew, but it would disqualify them from leading others by example.

I won't even dignify the xtian missionary's claim to be a Jew, other than to say one can be Jewish, one can be not-Jewish, and one can be a Jewish apostate. If you worship a human, if you worship more than one G-d (I don't care how you twist words around..."3 persons in one body" - a schizophrenic master, IMO), you are not Jewish. Stop pretending, stop answering questions asked of Jews, stop spreading misinformation, for you know NOTHING of Judaism - all you know is that you want to steal Jewish souls and mislead them into thinking you can remain Jewish while violating the very basis of Torah - Sh'ma Yisrael, Adoshem Elokeynu, Adoshem ECHOD.

Answer 5

Important to keep in mind that this is the "Conservative" denomination of Judaism. This is a movement founded in America, with little more than 100 years' history. It's not the same as traditional Judaism (referred to as orthodox Judaism).

Answer 6

Well first off I am not a Conservative Jew but I am aware of what the Conservative law committee passed.

The committee basically passed a law stating it was permissible for Rabbis of the Conservative movement to preform same sex commitment/marriage ceremonies and receive ordination as a Rabbi.

The committee upheld the ban on male homosexual sex and continues to say its forbidden.

I personally think that is like talking out of both sides of your mouth, but then again they have been doing that for so many years with their "big tent" philosophy that it dose not matter.

Answer 7

That is Conservative Judaism(and Reform Judaism has been accepting Homosexuals for a long time), Orthodox Judaism does not and doubtfully ever will accept Homosexuality.

Not sure what my opinion is to be honest, I do not think homosexuality is a chose therefore I believe G-d made them that way and therefore I have issues about not accepting them fully into society. On the other hand the Torah is fairly clear on the subject.

EDIT: I do not deny the existence of homosexual Orthodox Jews but having them exist is one thing accepting them is another. There are underground movements and the like but mainstream Orthodoxy can never accept it because it is not permissible in Jewish law.

Answer 8

In all honesty, this does not really matter since Conservative Judaism is not real Judaism. The conservative movement changes the rules as they like without regard to what the Torah says.

Answer 9

i've got faith that's an entire pretend (I say that from diagnosis, no longer emotional reaction) . Allah isn't the God of the Bible. Their characters and natures do no longer journey and issues from each e book conflict with the different. God is a relentless guy or woman, for this reason if the two books have been from him, they might have an identical opinion with one yet another. as properly, why might God enable his be conscious be corrupted with the help of mere human beings if that's our in basic terms wish to comprehend a thank you to be saved? and should no longer he have the flexibility to "get it precise" the 1st time? No, i do no longer have faith that the Quran is interior the line of succession in any respect in spite of if I named the Bible because of fact the main suitable certainty because of fact i comprehend that God does no longer waste his time asserting issues he does no longer mean later on or letting others stomp over his Holy be conscious. The Bible genuinely includes the Torah (called the previous testomony) that's why i've got not pronounced it. The previous testomony is purely as valid because of fact the hot and Jesus regularly quoted from the Torah himself, making it a valid e book. the actual incontrovertible fact that Jesus quoted the Torah interior the Bible additionally factors to the actual incontrovertible fact that he did no longer renowned the Quran (in spite of if there have been failed tries to declare that he did) and there is not any prophecy or foretelling of this variety of e book. The Bible closes asserting that whoever provides to or subtracts from the Bible is cursed. of course, that does no longer enable for one extra e book like the Quran for the reason that it is technically including to the Bible as an attempt to fill so-called "gaps".

Answer 10

so what is your question exactly? why they are not banned from everywhere? or maybe you want to know if gays are a Jews thing? or maybe you want to explain me what was the religion of that guy from the white house who had some fun with the help? or maybe that priest who was found paying for sex with guys ? I think Christianity contain much gay relationship in it and Muslim too beside what about David and Johnathan what do you you think they were? lol.

Answer 11

Being Messianic, I am blessed to see things from both the Christian and Jewish perspective. And yes, this same issue is eating away at both sides of the fence. How do people transition away from what is plain and evident in the Torah? Easy: "God changed His mind." "Things were different then." "Yeah, I know what Torah says, but I just don't think ..."

We have transgressed Yahweh's instruction and replaced it with the doctrines of men. Both the synagogue and the Church are guilty of this. If HaShem didn't mean it when He said "men are not to have sex with men," how do we know He meant it when He said "I give this land to you and your ancestors" or "you will be My people and I will be your God?" How do we know He meant it when it says "for God so loved the world?" Maybe He used to love the world but doesn't anymore. Maybe He changed His mind.

It's funny how He only changes His mind on the things we don't like.