Origin of the Species? Bible? How do you decide which book to put your faith in?

Question

Darwinists pride themselves in their use of logic (if by logic they mean their ability to read the logic of others), yet when it comes to faith in the unseen, they seem to be unwilling to see that evolution requires faith as well. It scares me on some level that evolutionists tend to behave like a cult that is trying desperately to recruit new members and get really defensive.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not religious, I don't believe in God or creationism, but I don't pretend to know the origin of the species. I'm here, that's all that matters. Thoughts? Comments?

The evidence is sight-unseen. It can't be seen. That's my point. Show me evolution without pointing to a book.

I fail to see how it would be important that I decide one way or another. Based on what I really know, I popped into this life miraculously. Even though I witnessed my son's birth and I know how procreation occurs, I can't truly know my origins, which I have no memory of, let alone the origins of our entire species.

Evolution and 2+2=4 has to be the worst line of comparison ever drawn in the history of mankind. 2+2=4 is a universal truth. The sum of two and two never fails to be four. Evolution is a house of cards -- merely a "best conclusion from what we know" theory that can't be proven any easier than it can be disproven. It's a type of theory that many scientists regard as the least stable kind.

Theory: I am a computer-savvy dragon.

In response to Steve as to 'why I do anything': I don't believe faith in creationism or evolution is needed as a motivator for living a life / a requirement for the pursuit of happiness. Not only do I believe in happiness, I also enjoy it and want more. That's what motivates me.

Kit: I don't expect that you can "show" evolution either on YA or in reality. I understand evolution, I understand the evidence. I have a grasp of natural selection, as well as selective breeding. But absent of faith in the written conclusions, all you're left with is a pile of fossil records and other artifacts.

Answer 1

Evolution by natural selection is the theory that best fits the data available. It has a lot of supporting evidence, whereas the bible has none.
The evidence is not unseen. Have you heard of fossils?

You're right, it is not at all important that you make a choice one way or the other. As long as you're not a biology teacher or anything like that. If you don't think there's enough evidence, there's no reason for you to express a belief either way.
But I don't think your lack of memory is a valid justification. Solipsism has no practical application.

Answer 2

I honestly don't believe you should have to justify your beliefs in the 'where did we come from' question to others. If you legitimately believe creationism to be the answer, then so be it. Conversely, if you think Darwin was right, than logically you are.

Which book you choose to put your faith in, is a deeply personal and subjective question. As you rightly point out, a belief that science can (eventually) explain everything requires a certain amount of faith in the scientific method. And the same is true for having a belief in an all-encompassing force that gave birth to the universe.

The best answer is that we are simply not sure, but we've got some opinions. In the end, the most important thing to remember is respect and compassion for the viewpoints of others. We are all on a journey to make sense of life and the opinions people reach for, are important to that individual's understanding.

My other advice is to not feel embarrassed for expressing an opinion or even having an opinion on the subject.

Answer 3

How can you possibly think that we can SHOW you evolution without showing you a book or a museum or introducing you to an expert on the subject?
Here on YA R&S ... you just have to do the research for yourself. It sits there waiting for you to dig out (if you will excuse the reference to paleontology there. No pun intended).
Evidence exists which suggests that the theories of the Big Bang, the origin of life on Earth and the evolution of same over the last 4.5 billion years are probably correct. Probably, in that there was no-one around in those early times to take notes, photographs, etc but the level of probability is high enough to accept by anyone with a brain that hasn't been filled with 'fudge' through religion.
There is zero evidence that a god actually exists and the bible is known to be a collection of fables, inventions, exaggerations, contradictions and, let's face it, lies, all suffering from several translations over time and, much like the Chinese Whisper, much gets changed in the retelling of any story.
So, you have to take all the information available, dissect it armed with some intelligence, expand your education by reading and seeing with your own eyes and then deciding upon which possibility is the more likely. Magic or evidence. Choose one. Choose wisely.
Realism or fantasy?
Up to you.

Answer 4

Really, really outstanding question!! Maybe the most intelligent question I've seen on here so far. Excellent! My thoughts? You CAN'T know what happened, because you weren't there. That's why it comes down to "what do you believe?" Christians take it on faith that God is real and responsible for what exists, just as science takes it on faith that just because they can form a theory (read "make something up") that fits some things that they assume are facts (apparently because they didn't have anything important to do that day) that there must be some basis in truth for it. I concede that God MAY have used the Big Bang and Evolution to bring about all that He wrought. My sister, a Christian as well, wholeheartedly believes it. Why does she believe "God through science" and I don't? Because it just doesn't make sense to me. And the more often science comes up with something out of left field [i.e. made up because they can't explain it, hence dark matter [yes, they literally made this stuff up)] the more strongly I believe the Bible's account of things. I'd be willing to accept the Grecko/Roman explanation, but who can keep up with all those gods?? And, as I've said before, I always consider the question of "What if I'm wrong?" I do have a question for you, though: If your thoughts are "Im here, that's all that matters," then why do you do anything? Good or bad, what's the point? Just to have something to do? And I'm being very serious about this; I would never dishonor someone who could ask so intelligent a question by being facecious.

Answer 5

Faith is required, it helps us fill in the gaps of our spirituality and maybe because religion is almost evolutionary in it self, think about it everyone doesn't learn on the same level or with the same amount of information. It only makes sense that there would be a boost mechanism. It is one of the things I disagree on with regard to global warming and negative evolutionary patterns. We could change our view by having at least some faith in the system. I hate all of the over drawn talk of gloom by the year 2100. More faith should be placed on human advancement. Lets make the best out of the situation regardless.

Answer 6

You put your faith in God, and your scientific knowledge in the available evidence, confident that if your religious beliefs are actually true they cannot conflict with true findings of science. Truth can never conflict with truth. The problem arises when some individuals and groups outright reject scientific facts supported by prodigious evidence, simply because their own personal guesses regarding the correct meaning of a few Bible passages are regarded as absolutely infallible - in spite of the fact that they conflict not only with scientific facts, but also with the biblical interpretations of many other Christian groups.
.

Answer 7

I do not put my faith in any known theories thus far, I don't think any of them are sound............creationism or evolution they are both too full of contraditions, ifs, buts etc...........I am holding out till something else comes that makes more sense to me and seems more plausible .....in fact I think something playing with DNA makes more sense at this junction...you might even call that an accidental creator of some sort, maybe it did and somehow tried to fix it by creating the notion of a GOD didnt realize we would be so smart and we got outta control..........other than that nada works for me.

Answer 8

Any enquiry to the origin will lead you to "religon", Holy books etc. An origin is never going to reveal infront of us through matter, mind or logic. The minute you go, Molecules-atom-3 particles and electromagnetic field-quarks ....it will keep on going like this. If you go wider in your enquiry, Earth-Solar system-Milky way-many universes theory....will go wider and wider. One thing which we may find is, there is a continuity to everything even after the so called "death". Better, you do an enquiry in that front. All the best.

Answer 9

There is no such thing as Darwinism. The theory of evolution is based on solid facts and observation. Just as solid as 2+2=4, which is by the way just another theory. So if you call into question the foundations of evolution then the whole of science collapses and with it technology and therefore your car, your house and your computer.

The evidence:

Fossils - the myths have to perform some dance to get around them

Carbon dating - again one has to believe some real nonsense to disprove carbon dating

Genetic encoding - all point to millions of years of evolution

your pet dog - evolved by us - to fit our world - from wolves

As I look out of the window - i see birds on my bird table evolving their behaviour to fit

Also - why choose the Bible? There are dozens of books with origins stories, all of them claiming to be true, all of them with just as good an argument as to what is true. I wonder if the argument is more to do with geography and history? If you were born in India or Jordan, would you be asking the same question? I doubt it. If you were born in Australia pre-colonisation, would you be asking the same question? - no!

I an not trying to recruit members to a cult just trying to stop the cancer that is creationism

Answer 10

The point of in the matter once you have accept the God paradigm you won't accept anything else. For Christian creationism is simple and explains everything where as in reality it doesn't. Science is still learning about the universe around us so it is always open to debate.

With creationism you learn nothing and it causes people to suspend thinking.