Does anyone really think determinism is true?

Question

I know there are good arguments that we don't have freewill, but one thing is always left out of those argument: spontaneity.

People argue with have no freewill because off a bunch of different reasons, including that we can't be any different than our environment and genes made us. In a certain situation, we will always be more likely to do a certain thing.

That's where spontaneity come in. What if you just feel like trying something new? What if the weather makes you want something hot to drink, but you go into Starbucks, and a song playing inspires a random thought in your head which reminds you of a time that you got a frappacino. So you get a frappacino. So many things could affect your choice. You could happen to overhear someone talking about one drink, and another person talking about another while you look at the menu and think of the song thats on- there are so many factors it doesn't really seem there could be order.

How could your choice be completely determined?

Grammar, what if there are several choices based on cause and effect though?

Jenni, every little think could matter. Any tiny decision we make could start a path to something significant.

Answer 1

Everything is the result of cause and effect. Without a cause, we will not think and take action in a certain way, so I think that that our choices (to an extent) are determined this way...

If there were several choices based on cause and effect, we would've already been influenced by a prior outcome of cause and effect into following another effect and etc.

Answer 2

What causes sponteneity? What causes you to try something new? What makes one option more appealing one moment and less appealing the next? In one moment there are many external influencers and internal influencers that determine how well you will recieve a message and how much importance you put on it. Your past experiences also affect how we respond to the stimuli around you. To say that we have free will or that we are slaves to our surroundings can only be determined by answering what free will is? Is free will having a choice that is only decided by a logical, concious mind that is free from external/internal influencers? Or is it our experience with our surroundings that make us wise? To feel hunger helps us understand poverty. To feel loneliness helps us value friendship. To feel loss and grief helps us to empathize with and console others. The experience of puberty changes the way a boy sees a girl and viceversa. So, if past experiences influence how we percieve our surroundings, and we are constantly influenced by what is going on around us and inside us, then how much of a choice does our "will" have? Sponteneity doesn't prove free will. It proves that no matter how logical, sane, and wise we try to be, we will always be influenced by the chaos that surrounds us.

Answer 3

In the example you give, your choices are being determined by factors other than your will--the weather, the song, the random thought. The fact that there is no plan or pattern determining your drink decision doesn't mean that it isn't determined by circumstance.

Answer 4

Just playing devil's advocate, I think most determinists believe that your destiny is pre-determined, not necessarily all the small events that lead up to this destiny. So, for example, deciding to get Starbuck's may have been your very own decision, but this decision has no bearing on your moral goodness or badness....moreover, this decision has no impact on whether you end up in heaven or hell.

Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I myself am not quite sure that I even believe in God, much less in determinism.

Answer 5

Free will and determinism coexisting? From God 's point of view our fate is already known. For us living in the now it is free will.