Why does all proof for God's existence require believing in him in the first place?

Question

I'm an agnostic, been checking out religion. Talking to some religious family and friends.

But the thing is all their proof for God's being real and the accuracy of the Bible only holds up if you already believe in God.

You can't use the 'look around you, there's the proof' thing because it's only proof of God's greatness if you believe in him and believe he created everything. It could just have easily been random chance.

I had this more coherently worked out yesterday but I got sicker overnight...

If there's something I'm missing, please tell me. I really don't have anything against the idea of the existence of some kind of deity but I need some actual proof.

Answer 1

My son, if you will recieve my words( the Bible is the word of God,) And store my commands inside you(obey His instructions, believe Him, in His teachings, act accordingly)
paying attention to wisdom(common sense) inclining your mind toward understanding( not YOUR understanding, but HIS) yes, if you will call for insight and raise your voice for dicernment(Pray out loud, asking )if you will seek it as you would silver and search for it as hidden treasure-then you will understand the fear of Adonai and find knowledge of God.

When Yeshua(Jesus) was alone, the people around him with the twelve(apostles) asked him about the parables. He answered them," To you the secret of the Kingdom of God has been given; but to those outside, everything is in parables, so that (the word will be fufilled) "they will always be looking but never seeing; always listening but never understanding. Unless they turn and be forgiven!"
Yeshua said to them," Don't you understand this parable? How will you be able to understand any parable? The sower sows the message. Those alongside the path (not on the path, the "path" is trust and obeidiance to God thru Jesus His messenger) where the message is sown are people who no sooner hear it than the Advesary(devil) comes and takes away the message sown in them. (Because they are outside the protection of the Spirit of God, which dwells in all who accept Jesus) ...you can finish reading this message in Mark 4. The translation I used is Complete Jewish Bible. It is easily comprehended. John 16 is also great reading. It explains the Spirit. Keep searching, don't give up! I can't, in this forum, "prove" God to you; but He can prove Himself to you.

Answer 2

I totally agree with you!

There are other arguments that follow with other reasoning. The one that i find the most ridiculous is the one you mentioned where people state "look around you, there is the proof" when you ask to prove god's existence. For all we know there could be some kind of planetary construction service (similar to that seen in the movie Hitchikers guide to the galaxy) that creates planets. Not some other-worldly presence.

They (christians) say that knowing for sure that god exists would FORCE people to obey him, and that's not what god wants. God apparently wants worshipping through faith which is voluntary. This kind of makes me confused.... It's like, there is a god..... & according to the books he wants us to worship him. If that's all he really wants from us then why give us free will & why hide from humans? If he wants us to worship him why doesn't he just reveal himself to be worshipped? Instead we are allowed to live our lives with free will to choose what we wish to choose. IF there is a god free will was given to us because he didn't necessarily want to be worshipped. He wanted all to live their lives as they chose. I find it hard to believe in an "all loving" god who condems people (by sending them to hell) simply because we are using the "free will" that we were given to choose our own lives.

Did i make any sense? LOL


p.s. Rbenne's argument above was ridiculous. His remark is valid, but the example he gives is irrelevant. You can prove a parent's love by the way they care for their children, provide for their children...etc. You don't have to have faith in your parents to know they love you.

Answer 3

"Why does all proof for God's existence require believing in him in the first place?"

It doesn't.
The "proof" for God's existence is found quickly and powerfully in the changed lives of those who follow him. I know many people (including myself) who can share their own story of emptiness and resentment, and how their lives were dramatically changed over time when they began to ask God into their life. Now, this change invariably involved hard work and commitment on their part, but it was centered around God's strength, comfort, and guidance found in community.

You know, you don't have to "fall in love" yourself to know that love is real. All it takes is really knowing someone who it's happened to. Same with God.

Answer 4

i assume it certainly relies upon on the place you're finding and what your thoughts are once you look. Is your innovations open to distinctive opportunities or no longer? From a Christian stand element i will say that: I see the hand of God in nature and in all of life itself. How can a guy or woman have faith that this entire international got here into life via twist of destiny, for no reason, no certainly consumer-friendly beginning element, with out plan or "blue print" to stay with and with the help of no sensible potential placing issues into action. To have faith that issues took billions and billions of years, that issues went from stay? count and grew to become into solids (rocks) then into germs, fish, birds, animals, and finally human beings is previous concept Take a widespread vacuum purifier via an plane junk backyard and while the vacuum purifier is emptied--out comes a very assembled sensible 747. that form of element makes as plenty sense as evolution. Plus, the place is the "In between" being?. Like area fish and area chicken, area deer and area horse, and if we developed from apes, the place is the area ape and area guy? Ain't none. creation with the help of God makes extra sense. i will examine the main examine and ideal merchandising e book ever written--the Bible, and study approximately God. i might desire to examine 1000's of articles, books, hear to 1000's of preachers and study approximately God. In my heart i comprehend there must be something better than purely this life. something extra ideal is yet to return. i will study a pair of guy or woman who grew to become into God incarnate, walked this earth and went in the process the pains, temptations, tribulations, good and undesirable issues in life purely as we do, yet did no longer sin. i will locate how this guy or woman gave up his life so we are in a position to be saved. That takes lots of love, potential, righteousness, and venture for us to do this variety of element. i will examine interior the Bible how all of the foretold activities (prophesies) have been genuine and have take place i will study approximately creation, straightforward human beings, how & why we are saved..

Answer 5

I'm agnostic as well and I must say I don't get it either.

I think they are saying you should accept all the things you cant or don't know or think about should be filled with the answer -God did it.

Not a healthy attitude if you ask me. I prefer self honesty.

Answer 6

If I refuse to believe computers will work, in spite of all the testimonies to the contrary, then there is no way you can prove it to me. Because I have to actually try a computer in order to believe it will work. And in order to do that, I have to have some small belief at least in the possibility that it will work.
Does this analogy help explain?

Answer 7

You look for something because you think, even ever so slightly, it exists somewhere. Why bother to look in the first place if you are biased with a thought that the thing you are looking for doesn't exist?

Answer 8

you will never get it, faith and proof are diametrically opposed, if there was proof there would be no need for faith.

Prove that your parents love you, you cant do that either. some things just are, with or without proof

Answer 9

Look at the sun, who made it?

Who knows?

Might be a god...
might be nature....
that god's name might be Allah...
might be Jesus...
or even Pepsi...

The sun is there and anyone can claim that he made it.

Answer 10

That is a very good point.