Sean Bell Police shooting in NYC; What defense can the cops offer for their actions the night of the shooting?

Question

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/sean_bell/index.html?inline=nyt-per

Answer 1

From what I understand there were 3 undercover officers that claim the two black men tried to use their car as a weapon and one reached for somethign they thought was a weapon.

Dont know if they have any witnesses but, if they can prove that the driver of the car tried to use the vehicle as a weapon then that will help.

Then its a matter of proving they didnt have time to actually see if what passenger reached for was or wasnt a gun, but his action was one not of cease and desist but rather provoking and aggressive.

Then they can argue that one officer who shot the most bullets either felt his life was in jeoprady or fired off so many shots to try to intercept the threat of the car being used and had to shoot off a mag, reload shoot off a mag and reload and shoot again -- which is going to be extremely difficult if the car didnt back up advance forward back up and advance forward again.

Then you get into the empathy factor. Where the average citizen doesnt know what it is to have to be apolice officer day in day out.

But I think it all comes down to testimony of a witness that proves the action of the cars driver.
like I said -- if the car went back and forth and back again, that could be enough to make justifiable 3 magazines being shot at the car by one officer.
If the car went back and forth, or just in reverse or just forward -- then clearly thats too many reloads to justify.

That means the officer panicked and shot and shot and shot too much to be responsible.
If anything they had containment on the vehicle, and the license plates, and descriptions of the two men.

so this truly becomes a matter of what action the driver took against the officers if any, and at which point in that whole getaway scene did the officers actually indicate they were officers.
Because just having guys say they are the police for no reason isnt good enough in my eyes.

==== just read the above after typing out my initial answer.

Its funny how we see Al sharpton spotlighting calling for this and that action -- yet forgot to leave ou tht econvenient details that these were both what appears pattern criminals with armed convictions on their sheets.

If the above article is true -- I see the officers getting past it.
Would be easy to argue -- since the car went back and forth and back.

And with that one officer shooting 31 shots and not 41 shots like I thought it was, it should be okay.
One change of mag in a shootout is pretty justifiable if you see a threat attacking your partner or yourself.

And them 2 casings found -- thats going to be argeuable.
As well as the Pot found, and the others that got away.

I see it a lengthy trial, but I wouldnt convict the officers.
Especially with men who both had armed robbery convictions in the past.

Is sharpton a republican?
Because hes leaving intel out intentionally and arguing like he belongs in hte bush administration

Answer 2

Bad Aim....why all those shots with just one fatality,more time on the range needed... ever been in a fire fight??? Instinct takes over, finger pulls on the trigger almost on it's own...we are not talking Harry Callahan and "how many shots did I fire?"....it's all a blur for which these guys will pay a much too heavy price for...

Answer 3

from the article, it sounds completely justifiable, especially since most black guys that look like thugs have guns, and they blame the white race for slavery and the fact that they are lazy. With convictions like that, and the fact they tried to ram the cops, the cops should walk.

Answer 4

There is not one, but they will get off, because of the corrupt sytstem.

Answer 5

November 27, 2006 -- A doomed young groom was caught in the crossfire of an undercover cop, whose bullets went clear through his car, and confused officers who returned their own blistering barrage, sources told The Post last night.

The blaze of gunfire lasted just 10 seconds outside the seedy Kalua Cabaret strip club in South Jamaica early Saturday. But it ended the life of 23-year-old, unarmed Queens dad Sean Bell, who was set to marry his high-school sweetheart and the mother of his two young daughters hours after his bachelor party at the club.

Dramatic new details of the deadly mayhem include the undercover cop at one point climbing onto the hood of Bell's car - his gun drawn and his police shield around his neck - screaming, "Police! Turn off your car! Let me see your hands!" said sources who talked to some of the cops involved in the shooting.

When Bell then tried to run down the plainclothes officer - twice - the cop began shooting, with some of his 11 bullets piercing the rear window of the man's Nissan Altima, the sources said.

This left the cop's backup unit - which was just arriving on the scene amid shattering glass and the undercover's shouts of "He's got a gun!" - thinking they were being fired upon from inside the vehicle. That's when they returned fire with another 39 bullets. One 12-year veteran, a narcotics detective, pumped 31 bullets, authorities said.

The sources recounted step-by-step how quickly things spiraled out of control after a dispute inside the club involving one of Bell's associates.

According to the sources, two undercovers were at the strip joint as part of the NYPD's new Club Enforcement Initiative. The program was started after the July slaying of 18-year-old Jennifer Moore of New Jersey, who partied at a Chelsea club before being abducted, raped and killed in a Weehawken hotel.

The undercovers, who usually worked in Manhattan, were on the last night of their two-month Queens job to try to nail the Kalua and other clubs on such violations as drugs and underage prostitution.

Inside the club, one of the plainclothes cops sat next to a woman he thought was a hooker and might proposition him, the sources said.

Suddenly, a burly man approached them and told the woman that he had heard she had gotten into a fight with a group of guys earlier in the club. It was unclear what it was over.

The man said, " 'Don't worry, baby, I got you covered,' and he takes her hand, and he rubs it across [the gun in] his waistband," a source said. "Then he tells her, 'That's what I'm here for.' "

It's unclear how the man smuggled his weapon past the metal detector outside the club. He likely was a regular who knew the bouncer at the door and may have worked there part time, helping with security, the sources said.

The undercover then went outside the club and radioed his backup to tell them there was a man inside with a gun. It was around 3:30 a.m.

While the undercover was outside, the suspect came out along with the girl and others, since it was around closing time.

The undercover watched as an argument erupted between Bell's group, which included three male pals and the beefy man with the gun, and four other men - with the woman in the middle of them, the sources said.

The woman was overheard saying to the men arguing with Bell's pals, "I'm not doing you all. I'll do one or two, but not all," according to the sources.

Around the same time, the undercover said he heard Bell's friend Joseph Guzman tell his buddies, "Yo, get my gun! Get my gun! Let's get my gun from the car! Yeah, we're gonna f- - - him up!" the sources said.

The undercover, thinking there was about to be a drive-by shooting in front of the club involving Bell's group, followed Guzman, Bell and two others to their car.

"It's getting hot! Something's going to happen! Something's going down!" the undercover radioed to his backup.

He hurried to the front of Bell's Altima, which was parked on the side of nearby Liverpool Street, and jumped in front of it.

That's when the undercover put his right leg up on the hood of the Altima and began screaming that he was a cop, the sources said.

The cop was leaning over the hood of the car to try to see the hands of the people inside and make sure they didn't have any guns, they said. But Bell floored the gas pedal and headed for the cop, the sources said, striking him and badly cutting his knee.

One of the Altima's passengers - who possibly had a gun - jumped out of the back of the car, the sources said.

Around the same time, an unmarked Toyota Camry driven by a plainclothes police lieutenant and another cop behind him pulled up, but overshot Bell's car. A police van with an officer and the narcotics detective then managed to block Bell's car in.

Bell's Altima first struck the police van in the driver's desperate bid to escape, then backed up and struck the roll-down metal doors of a commercial building behind him. He then revved his car again toward the undercover - which prompted the cop to scream, "He's got a gun!" and start firing, according to the sources, with the bullets passing through Bell's car.

"The undercover thought they had more than one gun. He thought they would do anything to get away. He was yelling, 'Let me see your hands!' " one source said.

The other cops, thinking they were under attack, started firing at the car, too.

At one point, the detective thought his gun had jammed and so reloaded his magazine and emptied the clip again at the car, firing 31 bullets.

Bell was killed, Guzman critically injured, and a third friend, Trent Benefield, was shot. They are expected to live.

Benefield later told a friend from his hospital bed that he and his buddies didn't know the undercovers were cops.

He told investigators, "I got into the car, and there was all this shooting."

It was unclear when the other four men who were originally fighting with Bell and his pals fled the scene. They were spotted leaving in a black SUV.

Bell had been arrested three times in the past: twice for drugs and one on a gun rap in a case that was sealed. Guzman has been busted nine times, including for armed robbery. He spent two stretches in state prison in the '90s. Benefield has a sealed record as a juvenile for gun possession and robbery.

Some marijuana was later found near the Altima, and investigators believe that it may have been tossed out by the group before the gunfire. Two bullet casings also were recovered from the Altima, although cops said they do not believe they were from a police gun.

The shooting of Bell, who was black, has ignited racial tensions in the city - even though the cops involved included two blacks, a Hispanic and two whites.

The five cops who fired shots were put on administrative duty. Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said it was the first time that any of the officers were involved in a shooting.

Detectives Endowment Association President Michael Palladino said the cops were justified in firing off a total of 50 bullets at unarmed men because Bell was using his car as a lethal weapon.

"Once the threat ended, so did the shooting."

A source told The Post: "They [the cops] feel completely sad about what happened. They made a decision, and they're going to live with it."

Mayor Bloomberg spoke to Bell's fiancée Saturday after the shooting, sources said.

Additional reporting by Stephanie Gaskell

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