Baptism -- just like the Pharisee?

Question

If we are not saved by baptism, and it's only a show of our faith, then the only logical reason for this act is winning points for heaven. Wouldn't Jesus have condemned this rather than commanded it if we are doing the same thing as the Pharisee in Luke 18:9-12?

Come back for my replies...

"Dust in the Wind", how do you know whether I will support your answer or just play standoff games? I like to hear thinking people post their thoughts and walk away stronger in their faith.

"a_blvr", "jignutty", if this is an initiation ceremony, did you earn points toward heaven for participating?

"Dusty Scribe", why would Jesus have implied by his actions that it wasn't necessary, yet commanded this at his ascension?

"David", "Scott_grant84", the Pharisee was also interested in outward signs and was quite proud of his work. Are you proud of your baptism?

"Augustine", if baptism does away with original sin, then haven't you by definition gained merits toward heaven?

"Lady_di-USA", do you earn the Holy Spirit's indwelling baptism?

"Gnostic", is baptism then a commandment to be blessed? Interesting... but aren't we acting like the Pharisee in doing so?

"reeko_2002", it's not bragging but it's about showing the world...?

SeeTheLight, take a look at my question and try again if you would.

Sean M, not sure I understand you -- weekly baptisms? It's not a show of faith but it is a requirement, are you proud of the result and presenting it before God as a gift -- and creating a liability on God's part?

t_a_m_i_l, you win points for rewards in heaven -- can you control God in this manner?

Gary D, "symbolize his dedication" -- do you do this for yourself?

That's most of the posts, I hope you've all walked away from this with a deeper understanding of your faith.

Answer 1

True Christian Baptism is a sign, yes, called a sacrament, as any sacrament is a physical sign of a higher unseen reality, however, it also does away with "Original" sin and any personal sin committed up to that point. But, there must be knowledge, intent and understanding of the parties involved. The mere act of getting wet has little value. It also is not necessary to do it with an audience ( a showy display for others) but can be as private as two people in a hospital room.

However, its not "Once Saved, Always Saved." After Baptism there is still the human element of concupiscence

{The primary difference between Catholic and Protestant theology on the issue of concupiscence is that Protestants consider concupiscence to be sinful, whereas Catholics believe it to be highly likely to cause sin, though not sinful in itself.}

, or our sinful fallen nature, thus we can sin after Baptism and thats a real problem if we do. But again, should we slip and sin after Baptism there is a remedy for that too. We all do slip from time to time...remember, there is a vast difference between "Committing a Sin" and "Living in Sin". Even saved Baptized Christians, because we are only Human, slip from time to time and commit sin. Jesus Christ is the only one who walked on earth completely perfect with no need of a saviour.

It is not simply an "Outward Sign" done for the benefit of others to see...such as you suggest using the example of the Pharisee seeking the praise of other men. As far as the "Good Thief" on the cross goes, there is also a thing known as "Baptism of Desire" giving the benefit that a person never exposed to the theology would accept it and be Baptized should they be given the opportunity. What really saves us is our desire to live for God and His mercy. Baptism is a mark of our desire to live for Christ and our obedience to Him by following His teachings and commandments to us.

P.S. Addition

You wrote above:


"Augustine", if baptism does away with original sin, then haven't you by definition gained merits toward heaven?

Response:

I guess you failed to read my entire post. Look at the conclusion for the response to your cutting remark; I include it here as well:
"What really saves us is our desire to live for God and His mercy. Baptism is a mark of our desire to live for Christ and our obedience to Him by following His teachings and commandments to us."

Answer 2

How can sinners express faith in Christ and his sacrifice? When people in the first century became believers, they publicly demonstrated that. How? They got baptized. Why? Because Jesus commanded that all his disciples be baptized. (Matthew 28:19, 20; Acts 8:12; 18:8) A person will not hold back when his heart is really moved by the loving provision that Jehovah made through Jesus. He will make any needed adjustments in his life, dedicate himself to God in prayer, and symbolize his dedication by water immersion. It is by demonstrating faith in this way that he makes ‘request to God for a good conscience.’—1 Peter 3:21.

so in order to be saved you must be baptized.wether you have a heavenly calling or an earthly one.

Answer 3

The point of Baptism is to wash away the sin that we have commited before the knowledge of Christ and basically is giving you a clean slate and agreeing to adhear to the commandments.

Example how can babies go to hell like in the Catholic religion if they are not baptised right away?

How can a child make a commitment to God before it can comprehend the decision?

Babies are inocent in the sight of God. Almost every church out there makes that decision for children. We have are own agency and need to make decisions like baptism for are self.

Baptism is nessasary and not a show of faith but a cleansing of sin before we learn to take the sacrement everyweek and renew are covenants with the lord.

www.lds.org

Answer 4

We are not saved by baptism. We are saved by the mercy and grace of God. We need to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. And when we do we want to be baptized like Him. But we never get saved by the baptism only. : )

Answer 5

There are two different types of baptism. Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost....

When one has given their life over to Christ; He imparts to them His spirit. The Holy Spirit dwells within all true believers. This is the regeneration/new birth that christians speak of.

Answer 6

Baptism is an outer show of an inward work. It is you proclaiming to all that you have died to propetual sin and have risen into a new life. No it is a testimony and not a bragging point.

Answer 7

After your saved you get baptized as a public declaration of you new faith and as an act of obedience to God. It symbolizes the dying of the old self and the Resurrection of the new with Christ.

Answer 8

We are saved by Christ finished work on the cross. It is acceptable to GOD. It just needs to be acceptable to us. Baptism is a public statement of an inward change, It is sort of an initiation ceremony. If you were an Atheist and wanted to have fun you could be baptized forty times a day and it will be nothing but a public bath.

Answer 9

The version you have used isn't one that has striven for be conscious-for-be conscious accuracy while it substitute into translated. (It used the "theory-for-theory" or "dynamic equivalent" concepts-set.) As such, it truly is incorrect to apply this translation to attempt to discover the which skill of single words, as they won't be translated thoroughly properly. those verses are greater useful understood, and that i think greater properly, in different translations. (Translations that attempt for be conscious-for-be conscious accuracy.) evaluate here: "while each and all the individuals and the tax creditors heard this, they recognized God's justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. however the Pharisees and the legal experts rejected God's objective for themselves, not having been baptized by means of John." (NASB) "while each and all the individuals heard this, and the tax creditors too, they declared God in simple terms, having been baptized with the baptism of John, however the Pharisees and the legal experts rejected the objective of God for themselves, not having been baptized by means of him." (ESV) confident the KJV supplies an ungainly rendering of they "justified God", whether it truly is precise, it truly is greater useful understood interior the translations I even have quoted above. They known God's justness. they did not reason God to be in simple terms, yet they often taking place that he's in simple terms. Baptism does not reason faith, yet faith and baptism artwork at the same time to the top results of salvation. "He that believes and is baptized would be saved." (Mark sixteen:sixteen) faith, perception and have confidence in God, leads one to obey. Obedience, in turn, makes faith alive and able to keep. "What stable is it, my brothers, if somebody says he has faith yet does not have works? Can that faith keep him?" (James 2:14) "you notice then that a guy is justified by means of works, and not by means of religion on my own." (James 2:24) "For because of the fact the physique different than for the spirit is ineffective, so additionally faith different than for works is ineffective." (James 2:26)

Answer 10

It is written to not forsake anyone from being water baptized.

In this case it was clear the Holy Spirit already had baptized them in fire/Holy Spirit. So why deny them water baptism? Water baptism is an act of faith and a witness of what Jesus did for someone. People should be baptized in the Name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit, the Trinity.

The person is born of God the moment he/she confess Jesus Christ Lord with heart faith in His Atonement & Resurrection. It is a heart change, a new birth. Born of His Spirit, cleansed by His Blood, joint heirs with Jesus, part of the family of God.

The Name of the Trinity is Yahweh Elohim or El Elyon, the everlasting name of the God of Israel. Also, Jesus in His humanity, because He suffered our sins on the cross & victoriously raised from the dead a new everlasting physical body, God has highly exalted Him with the Name above all names, that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow & tongue confess "Jesus Christ is LORD." to the Glory of God the Father.

We are saved by His Blood that is shed for the remission of our sins. Water baptism represents this. It is very important. The old man dies, sins are washed away in His Blood, the new man in Christ raises up. It is symbolic of the new birth in Christ, Jesus death & resurrection.

The acts aren't winning points for heaven. They are winning points for rewards in heaven. But all acts rooted in faith, hope & love have everlasting rewards. This is an act rooted in faith, hope & love.


It is also written in the Proverbs, to be a proud doer of the Word of God. This isn't selfish pride. It is called obedience.


Water baptism isn't necessary for the gift of eternal life. Being born of God is. Jesus said that to see the Kingdom of God, you must be born again. This is spiritual eyes opened to see the Spiritual Kingdom. To be a child of the King, inherits Kingdom blessings. You cannot become an unchild of the King.

To obey the written Word and be water baptised is just building on the Rock foundation, Christ. It is works/ building blocks with everlasting rewards. The works that aren't rooted in everlasting get burned or blown away. If a person was a child of the King and only built perishable & house is tested by wind & fire and it burns, child is still on the Rock, inheriting everlasting life, but with not much reward. Still goes to heaven, because is still redeemed by His Blood & a child of the King.


The Parasees were religiously self righteous, not Christ Righteous. They schemed to kill Jesus Christ. Jesus told them that their Father was Satan. Satan is a murderer from the beginning. When they said their public prayers it was for show for the people to see how righteous & religious they were. This is self righteousness.

Yes some religions water baptise to be more righteous. That is self righteousness. But true Children of God water baptize because of what Jesus did for them and witness their Salvation to the world, because they are obeying their Lord.


In answer to your chatting... It is written that God holds His promises above His own Name. So, yes, we can claim His Word to Him in prayer. God loves this. This isn't so much controling God, but God conforming us to His Word.