Romans 3:23?

Question

Paul tells us through illumination of the Holy Spirit that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Catholics say Mary never sinned.

The bible says one thing, the catholic church says another,

which one do you trust?

I'm not trying to fight with Catholics, I was raised catholic and the rest of my 5 bros and sis's are still catholic. I just want you to be sure of your faith and be able to defend it WITH FACTS, not just "that's what i've always believed" answers.

tebone03... I realize the old testament "TYPES" but that still leaves us a contradiction.....

Rom 3:23 All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...

ROM CATH... Mary is free from sin.

If Mary sinned, the bible is a lie and all of the athiests, agnostics and every other sect is right.

It cannot contain a flaw and still be the word of God.

Answer 1

Did Mary die? If not we can ask her !

" Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. "

So all have sinned in Adam.

And since, " the wages of sin is death," so all die.

Did Mary die? - Then, of course, she died because she had sin.


But of Christ, " being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. "

Not possible because, of course, Christ had not sinned. Death could not therefore hold Him.

" Christ also suffered for us ...
Who did no sin... "

For, " God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Notice also that He "gave up the ghost."

If He had not voluntarily yielded to death, given up His spirit, (for our sakes) then He could not have died, having never sinned nor had Adam's sin passed to Him.

Strange that the Roman Catholics so venerate Mary as to make her a goddess to say she has not sin. That would necessarily mean that she would therefore be left on earth and not be able to enter heaven.

As you imply they do not seem to have thought this one out properly - the facts are rather against them !

Answer 2

I was also raised Catholic, but now that I have studied in the manuscripts for more than 35 years, I know that what I was taught was so far from the Scriptures, that I was shocked, frankly.
Heck, I even believed for years and years that Eve actually ate an apple and that was her sin. If you start someone out with a lie, theres no way they are going to understand the rest of the Bible.
To answer your question, Mary was a very good woman; she was obviously special in the eyes of God to have chosen her for such an incredible destiny which was her life. That said, no person who is still in this flesh body is without sin; we all fall short of the glory of God, and Scripture does not say "we all fall short except for Mary". We all fall short, period. Mary included. I am sure that Mary prayed and repented for her shortcomings as we all do, and would certainly never try to take away from all that she was and is in the eyes of God and all of us who are Christians.
God does not appreciate when lies are told, even if those lies are told with good intention. A lie is still a lie, and the truth is still the truth. Mary, being studied in the Word of God, would probably have a real problem with folks stating that she never sinned in the flesh. I think she would also appreciate a Church who told the truth, don't you?

Answer 3

the Bible is infallible- not any church- including the Catholic Church. The Bible says ALL have fallen short of the glory of God. Someone once said- "what does all mean?- ALL MEANS ALL AND THAT IS ALL ALL MEANS". Mary was chosen by God because of her closeness to the Lord and her humility- not because she was perfect. The Bible says also that there is no one righteous. When Christ died on the cross and shed His blood- we replaced our unrighteous rags with His garment of righteousness. This includes Mary.

Answer 4

Finding the truth for ourselves is not easy to do, especially when it seems to conflict with other religeous groups. I think the answer is to look at ourselves. See I KNOW i am a sinner and what this scripture means for me. It is hard not to judge other people when there is a question like what you have there. I am not sure on the truth of the catholics doctrine but If your journey is leading you to the Bible i would believe that over any human. Hope that helps.

Answer 5

Sin was created by Man

If Mary Sinned, then the Bible is inaccurate - this doesn't mean that its all lies.

The only thing that is important about Jesus are the words and stories he spoke, not him or his mother, etc

NOTE: They are not to be worshipped or treated as Gods, as any human who is put in place of God is the Anti Christ - a Position that both Jesus and Mary should not currently hold...

Answer 6

Yes everyone has sinned. The catholic church made Mary classed as sinless early in its history because she was Jesus' mother.
In Luke 1:26-38it says the following:
The Birth of Jesus Foretold
26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."

29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."

34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"

35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing is impossible with God."

38"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her.

Footnotes:

1. Luke 1:35 Or So the child to be born will be called holy,

the bible does not say that Mary was without sin, just that she was in Gods Favour.
How the catholic church goes about the beliefs is up to them, we have to learn to read Gods word for ourselves and learn about what God want to show us. Of course we have to listen to our spiritual leaders as they may have something to teach us.
i realise that this is not a very good answer, but I hope that you undersyand where I am comming from!

Answer 7

But why does it matter? Surely so long as we try to live our lives as Jesus Christ taught, we are doing the will of God. Isn't that what we're aiming for? I can't understand why we even bother with Catholicism, Protestantism, and all the other divisions of Christianity. Didn't Jesus just say to worship God and try and live according to his will? If we all do that, nothing else matters does it? I do not consider myself a member of any particular Christian church, but following the teachings of Jesus is just a pattern for life. You don't really need to have any strong religious feelings at all.

Answer 8

I agree with Redbone and the BIBLE. The BIBLE is NOT flawed. It is GOD's Inspired WORD and has no error. We have all sinned according to Romans 3:23. That includes Mary who bore our Savior Jesus Christ, the Son of GOD. You should attempt to discuss this matter with your family members also. They have been following the wrong church. CHRIST's CHURCH does not teach what is wrong according to the HOLY SCRIPTURES. GOD would not allow it. Have a great day!
Thanks,
Eds

Answer 9

this is tough. BTW Caesar became at his height in 50-40BC, he wasnt even alive in 117. Alexander did win with very almost an identical recommendations-set, and relied heavily on his cavalry. Caesar fought battles against Carthage, Egypt, Spain, and quite some sorts of barbarians, or perhaps fellow romans and gained whilst he became out numbered 3 to one million jointly as struggling with pompey. Caesar became a militia genius, on no account dropping a conflict (one withdraw from an attack) yet each and every conflict he became outnumbered, at circumstances 4 to one million. i think of Caesar might regularly in if he ought to overcome off the cavalry

Answer 10

The Catholics have been around a lot longer then any other churches. Given some time I am sure that many of our beloved protestant doctrines will be equally messed up.
The reason this happens is so we will put our faith and trust in GOD alone. Church is awesome but it is not GOD. All believers in Christ finished work on the cross are the real church. We are free to worship where and when we want. Creating division has no value and creates all sorts of nasty side effects.