Scenario: 1940's UK & France V. Russia. Outcome?

Question

This scenario assumes UK & France kicked Hitler out of Rhineland when he broke treaty that ended WWI, thus stopping rebuilding of German military. As a result, Germany dissolves into civil war between communists and Nazis, with ordinary Germans in the middle. Russia supplies Communists, UK & France the Nazis. Tension builds, war declared. Who wins? why? What of Spain and Italy?

EDIT: For those who think I don't know my history, check yourself. Treaty of Versailles forbade Germany from army of more than 100,000, or from having submarines, or more than six warships over 10,000 tons. Hitler used the march into demilitarised Rhineland as provocation, gambling France & UK would do nothing. He was right. He also walked out of arms limit talks after saying he wanted French forces reduced to German size, or Germany's equal to France's, and France refused: he was hailed as right and the French wrong, just months later the UK allowed him a Navy one-third the size of the RN.

Answer 1

Interesting scenario - I'll play along.

The West wins. Most ordinary Russians, especially in Western Russia, hated Stalin. Germany wins in Russia if Hitler employs some sort of reason and listens to his generals, and if he doesn't brutalize the population, who initially greet him as a liberator from Stalin's tyranny. Historically, there has also been more of a cultural association between Germany and the West, with most Germans casting a suspicious eye eastward. While communism may have some appeal in an economically troubled country, there is no love for the sponsor state - Russia - and therefore the impetus and urgency for success lies with those supported by the West, who moderate the more extreme aspects of Nazism. In Germany, at least, you have a earlier, slightly different version of the Cold War, with pretty much the same outcome.
Now, if that leads to a conflict between the sponsors in 1940 - UK and France vs Russia, it's a no-brainer. The West wins, easily. In 1940, Russia has no military leadership due to Stalin's purges. They can't even beat the Finns. France's army is only so-so, but the UK has a very professional force, probably Europe's best. The Germans didn't win in Russia for two reasons - Hitler's stupidity and the Russian winter. The West plans for the latter and easily avoids the pitfalls of the former by winning the hearts and minds of the Russians - who hate Stalin - and by being more flexible in their planning.
Spain and Italy - both irrelevant. Spain is just done with a civil war, and neither country can fight their way out of a paper bag. They stay neutral.

Answer 2

Since Germany's entry into the Rhineland was in March 1936 almost three years after Hitler became Chancellor and vastly enlarged not only his military forces but the SS and Gestapo I doubt that even if France/Britain had forced him to leave the Rhineland there would have been little chance of any civil war in Germany. 'Robb D' read the question it had nothing to do with the U.S., in any case isolationism was so strong in America at that time that there was no desire to get involved in Europe. With your knowledge of history I suppose this is a joke answer.

Answer 3

Who declared war on who, and why? Since Germany has had no military in your scenario since WW1, I would assume that all of West Europe (except Italy, for one) will side with Britain and France. But then I must ask myself, why would they be supporting the Nazis? If this is called WW2, it will end the same as the Soviets could not defend itself on more than one front and the U.S. wouldn't be fighting Japan. Everyone lives happily ever after. The End.

Answer 4

Germany was stronger than UK & France combined. Russia proved to be stronger than Germany. Think about it in math terms:

UK & France = 5 units of Strength
Germany = 8 units of Strength
Russia = 10 units of Strength

UK & France < Russia
Goes who was going to win?

Answer 5

Final score - Red Army won, French and British forces lost. It's as simple as that, even taking into account the scruffy shambles which was the Red Army in c1940.

The Red Army then and the Russian Army today is held in very high esteem by the British people. It is not an army which will easily be defeated, if ever.

The Russians do not do surrender.

Answer 6

America, Patton, takes charge. Push ruskie's back to motherland at this time fission machines are ready airburst over Moscow , ST.Petersburg and far west as western ports to control ocean. done sealed and delivered cold war never started. Stalin vaperized. Now we let the the Germans do what they do best....Brew great Lager's..and we all live happy ever after !!!!!

Answer 7

this scenario leads to a fifty year long cold war with britain who now control most of europe and huge areas of asia and africa.

on the other hand, israel does not exist. india does not exist, nor pakistan, nor bangladeesh. etc, etc, etc.

Answer 8

Too many hours at the Xbox

Answer 9

How about you do your own homework for your History coursee???

Answer 10

wow.

have you ever read any history - i wonder.

your scenario is highly unlikely...