(Hindus): Krishna was not vishnu's Avtaar ?

Question

In Geeta chapter 10 (shloka 21&23)Shri Krishna says - I am Vishnu among Adityas ....I am Shiva among all Rudras.

Now the one who is above Vishnu and Shiva will only say this that shiva and vishnu are His Manifestations.

Then why is Krishna called Manifestation of Vishnu? Was Krishna not The highest God far above shiva and vishnu, who were created by Krishna? What are your views ?

Definitely Krishna !! my point is that why should we accept krishna as a mere incarnation of vishnu to appeases vaishvanites?

Krishna is Brhamm, he is Paramshiva the turiya!! Am I wrong?

Answer 1

Does it really matter? It's no worse than claiming Buddha as an incarnation of Vishnu...

I agree that in the Bhagavad Gita what's claimed for Krishna is that he is the essence of the essence - or the highest God. But that essence is obviously beyond words. So whether to call Vishnu an emanation of Krishna or Krishna an emanation (or Avatar) of Vishnu is ultimately just semantics, isn't it?

My point about Buddha is that at least Krishna-devotees and Vishnuites share a basic vision of how the world and the divine relate. Each also (in most versions anyhow) practically accept the caste-system.

In Buddhism god and gods play a very small, insignificant part and the caste-system was and is condemned.

Answer 2

The trinity(Brahma, Vishnu and Siva) are the three aspects of the same God, While creating, He is Brahma, while sustaining, He is Vishnu and in annihilation He is Siva. These are the various names ascribed to indicate the separate functions.For eg., I am a father to my son, Iam the husband for my wife, Iam the son to my mother etc. But my innate identity never suffers any change. Hence all these are God. He is the in dweller and at the same time transcendent principle. Hence Krishna being supreme are all our own imaginations. the argument will be endless. nagarajan.

Answer 3

Please read VEDAAs. In Vedaas, it is clearly mention that GOD is one and there is no Avtaar atall by any body. The God does not have any shape and any picture. The Idolship is totally wrong and fake. There are several messengers of God. Might be Vishnu, Krishna etc.etc.. are messengers and who came to earth just to teach goodness to the peoples of that time. Each and every messengers came to earth just to say GOD is ALMIGHTY and everybody should worship to him only. If you go reading weith understanding, you may come to know that it has been predicted that one messenger would come who will be the last one of the series and who would have a law book released by the ALMIGHTY which would be in run till the destroy of everything created by the ALMIGHTY once. The predicted last messengers arrives in Arab just fourteen hundreds years ago......

Answer 4

All devas and avatars are manifestations of Brahman. No one deva is higher than another, they are all equal because they are all aspects/reflections of the One. Krishna is associated with Vishnu 1) because his worship began by Vaishnavas (devotees of Vishnu) and 2) because it is Vishnu that is often associated with preserving and protecting and maintaining the balances of the universe and sometimes that means incarnation (which is what Krishna, the human formed fully divine realized incarnation, does...according to the stories). The Rig Veda says "There is only one God, but humanity calls It by many names." The Tripura Rahasya says "What I am is utterly beyond your mind's ability to fully understand, therefore worship me by whatever name and form you desire. I promise that by whatever name you call upon me I will hear you and whatever form you worship me by I will bless you." Over and over again the sacred texts, lectures by various gurus and swamis, etc throughout the Hindu tradition remind us that all the many names and forms we have for God are just one way we connect to God, but that ultimately God is beyond all the names and forms, too. To use a quote that a guru once said "in Hinduism all the gods and goddesses are in control because they are all one." I remember reading a story about a wise Hindu who was so tired of hearing the bickering in his time of which god was the true god, the higher god. So he traveled to Rama (and incarnation of Vishnu) and sat and waited. Finally after a long time Rama looked up and apologized to the wise man saying "Sorry I kept you waiting, but I had to finish my prayers to Shiva." There it is, the man thought, Vishnu is worshipping Shiva. This must mean Shiva is truly the higher god. So pleased to know the answer he rushed off to tell Shiva, but when he got there once again he had to wait. After waiting for a long time Shiva looked up and saw the man. "I deeply apologize for keeping you waiting while I was in meditation, but I just could not tear myself away from worshipping the feeting of Rama." The point of the story, like so many others like it I've heard (just different gods and goddesses used) is that they're all one...they're all equal. This isn't the Greco-Roman pantheon where each of the deities had their place in the heirarchy. Instead in the Hindu pantheon they're all equal because unlike the Greco-Roman beliefs, Hindus believe that ultimately they're all one. "That one Being has become all this. All this is only one." -Rig Veda

Great question. Peace be with you.

Answer 5

the supreme power is brahman - without any shape and size.(not brahma of trimurthis). the meaning of those shloka is - "u can worship me in any format (roopa). therz nothin like i'm this or i'm that. i will reach you in that same format (roopa) in which u worshiped me"
here being the avataar, krishna is only the reprasentation of god. thus he comes under shiva or vishnu.

Answer 6

look,do not take it leterally or something like most people do
its more spiritual than textual
u have got to have the 'feel' and ur morals correct,that is why he says so,its not as if it is all conned n rote by words
if u wanna follow religion,then do it by spirit,not by rules

every god is just the same........

Answer 7

oh careful, the touchy christian fundamentalists are gonna come and start telling you to go get "saved" first, because it is "the only right path".......

Answer 8

Let us hear what Lord Brahma has to say regarding Krishna in his treatise known as Brahma Samhita 5.1:

isvarah paramah krishnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam

"Krishna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes."

All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Sri Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.3.28

Purport to above verse by, A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acharya of ISKCON
(International Society for Krishna Consciousness)

In this particular stanza Lord Sri Krishna, the Personality of Godhead, is distinguished from other incarnations. He is counted amongst the avataras (incarnations) because out of His causeless mercy the Lord descends from His transcendental abode. Avatara means "one who descends." All the incarnations of the Lord, including the Lord Himself, descend on the different planets of the material world as also in different species of life to fulfill particular missions. Sometimes He comes Himself, and sometimes His different plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions, or His differentiated portions directly or indirectly empowered by Him, descend on this material world to execute certain specific functions. Originally the Lord is full of all opulences, all prowess, all fame, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation. When they are partly manifested through the plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions, it should be noted that certain manifestations of His different powers are required for those particular functions. When in the room small electric bulbs are displayed, it does not mean that the electric powerhouse is limited by the small bulbs. The same powerhouse can supply power to operate large-scale industrial dynamos with greater volts. Similarly, the incarnations of the Lord display limited powers because so much power is needed at that particular time.

For example, Lord Parasurama and Lord Nrisimha displayed unusual opulence by killing the disobedient ksatriyas twenty-one times and killing the greatly powerful atheist Hiranyakasipu. Hiranyakasipu was so powerful that even the demigods in other planets would tremble simply by the unfavorable raising of his eyebrow. The demigods in the higher level of material existence many, many times excel the most well-to-do human beings, in duration of life, beauty, wealth, paraphernalia, and in all other respects. Still they were afraid of Hiranyakasipu. Thus we can simply imagine how powerful Hiranyakasipu was in this material world. But even Hiranyakasipu was cut into small pieces by the nails of Lord Nrisimha. This means that anyone materially powerful cannot stand the strength of the Lord's nails. Similarly, Jamadagnya displayed the Lord's power to kill all the disobedient kings powerfully situated in their respective states. The Lord's empowered incarnation Narada and plenary incarnation Varaha, as well as indirectly empowered Lord Buddha, created faith in the mass of people. The incarnations of Rama and Dhanvantari displayed His fame, and Balarama, Mohini and Vamana exhibited His beauty. Dattatreya, Matsya, Kumara and Kapila exhibited His transcendental knowledge. Nara and Narayana RIsis exhibited His renunciation. So all the different incarnations of the Lord indirectly or directly manifested different features, but Lord Krishna, the primeval Lord, exhibited the complete features of Godhead, and thus it is confirmed that He is the source of all other incarnations. And the most extraordinary feature exhibited by Lord Sri Krishna was His internal energetic manifestation of His pastimes with the cowherd girls. His pastimes with the gopis are all displays of transcendental existence, bliss and knowledge, although these are manifested apparently as sex love. The specific attraction of His pastimes with the gopis should never be misunderstood. The Bhagavatam relates these transcendental pastimes in the Tenth Canto. And in order to reach the position to understand the transcendental nature of Lord Krishna's pastimes with the gopis, the Bhagavatam promotes the student gradually in nine other cantos.

According to Srila Jiva Gosvami's statement, in accordance with authoritative sources, Lord Krishna is the source of all other incarnations. It is not that Lord Krishna has any source of incarnation. All the symptoms of the Supreme Truth in full are present in the person of Lord Sri Krishna, and in the Bhagavad-gita the Lord emphatically declares that there is no truth greater than or equal to Himself. In this stanza the word svayam is particularly mentioned to confirm that Lord Krishna has no other source than Himself. Although in other places the incarnations are described as bhagavan because of their specific functions, nowhere are they declared to be the Supreme Personality. In this stanza the word svayam signifies the supremacy as the summum bonum.
The summum bonum Krishna is one without a second. He Himself has expanded Himself in various parts, portions and particles as svayam-rupa, svayam-prakasa, tad-ekatma, prabhava, vaibhava, vilasa, avatara, avesa, and jivas, all provided with innumerable energies just suitable to the respective persons and personalities. Learned scholars in transcendental subjects have carefully analyzed the summum bonum Krishna to have sixty-four principal attributes. All the expansions or categories of the Lord possess only some percentages of these attributes. But Sri Krishna is the possessor of the attributes cent percent. And His personal expansions such as svayam-prakasa, tad-ekatma up to the categories of the avataras who are all visnu-tattva, possess up to ninety-three percent of these transcendental attributes. Lord Siva, who is neither avatara nor avesa nor in between them, possesses almost eighty-four percent of the attributes. But the jivas, or the individual living beings in different statuses of life, possess up to the limit of seventy-eight percent of the attributes. In the conditioned state of material existence, the living being possesses these attributes in very minute quantity, varying in terms of the pious life of the living being. The most perfect of living beings is Brahma, the supreme administrator of one universe. He possesses seventy-eight percent of the attributes in full. All other demigods have the same attributes in less quantity, whereas human beings possess the attributes in very minute quantity. The standard of perfection for a human being is to develop the attributes up to seventy-eight percent in full. The living being can never possess attributes like Siva, Visnu or Lord Krishna. A living being can become godly by developing the seventy-eight-percent transcendental attributes in fullness, but he can never become a God like Siva, Visnu or Krishna. He can become a Brahma in due course. The godly living beings who are all residents of the planets in the spiritual sky are eternal associates of God in different spiritual planets called Hari-dhama and Mahesa-dhama. The abode of Lord Krishna above all spiritual planets is called Krishnaloka or Goloka Vrindavana, and the perfected living being, by developing seventy-eight percent of the above attributes in fullness, can enter the planet of Krishnaloka after leaving the present material body.