Athiest or Antitheist? Where do you put yourself?

Question

[ Opening note: Religious nutters need not apply. Christians and muslims posting here should prepare to be ridiculed. ]

So.... to those of you considering yourself at least roughly "athiest"..... how many of you are merely that: "athiest"... and how many are genuinely antitheistic?

What it really comes down to is whether you don't consider the god notion (nor its people) to be of any consequence to you because it is false.... OR .... whether, like I do, you consider the effects of theism to be genuinely harmful to humanity and the individuals that comprise it.

Religions kill reason in their followers... giving them a set of rote rules to violate as they will as opposed to exercising their own judgement. This allows them to theoretically justify acts that any rational person would consider truly ridiculous simply through the exploitation of loopholes. They constantly hold back utilitarian scientific advancement with their warped "morality".

So tell us where you stand.

If anyone can show me an example of oppression in society NOT caused... directly or indirectly... by religion, I would be VERY impressed...

Folks.... the idea of a "middle" isn't really in question here, and would make labelling VERY awkward.

Afterall.... the only middle ground between being ambivalent regarding the theists and actively opposing them is probably something like "slightly wanting rid of them" or being "mildly opposed to the god notion" ....

Exactly why so many of you seem to be trying to pick some middle when I suspect you don't even know what you're suggesting.... I can't be sure.



And regarding the person who commented on my opening note: Religious folks won't be either athiest nor antitheist... so the question cannot logically apply to them at all. Same goes for agnostics, I suppose, though not to the same extent..

Answer 1

You've been stealing my thoughts, right? I've been formulating my ideas on this very distinction, only from a different angle. I have to say I come down firmly on the atheist side of the metaphorical fence.

While what you allege as the evils of theism might be true (hang fire everyone, I said MIGHT be true), god-belief surely isn't the only reason for the world's ills, real or imagined.

The selfish, ill-educated, narrow-minded, greedy, petty individuals of questionable morals are spread through every race, religion, socio-economic background, gender, ethnicity, or any other arbitrary mode of categorisation you wish to employ.

Honestly I believe that the notion of gods was a necessary part of (dare I say it) human evolution, but that necessity is now passed - or more correctly I should say it is passing. I'm not saying atheists are more evolved than believers, but I do believe god-worship will eventually disappear from the collective human psyche. It will just take a very long time.

Smacking people over the head isn't going to make them any more ready to let go of the notion than they already are, and will more likely lead them to hold to their beliefs even more tenaciously. I find the notion of evangelical atheism just as scary as any other kind of fundamentalism, if not more so.

Kinda like militant pacifism, just not a workable proposition.

Answer 2

I'm not atheist or antitheist, but I can understand the difference and I found your question interesting. Though I do feel a little left out of your offer to ridicule me, being pagan.

"What it really comes down to is whether you don't consider the god notion (nor its people) to be of any consequence to you because it is false.... OR .... whether, like I do, you consider the effects of theism to be genuinely harmful to humanity and the individuals that comprise it."

At least you put "the effects of" rather than just "theism."

I think belief is a part of being human. Even a belief that science can explain everything is still just a matter of faith until science does explain everything. That said, however, I have serious problems with several major organized religions, mainly having to do with the way they treat members of other faiths but in some cases with the way they choose to indoctrinate the children of their religious community. Part of this naturally arises as a group gets bigger, no matter what they believe, but in some cases rules are set to accelerate the process.

In a perfect world, organized religious practice and general spiritual belief would work together - however, this is not always the case. Until each person in a religious community reaches a level of moral development and spiritual awareness equal to the others, or at least is trying to, the religious community will be at best impaired, at worst nonfunctional.

Religions kill reason in their followers... giving them a set of rote rules to violate as they will as opposed to exercising their own judgement.

Well, not all religions do this. Yes, there are religious groups or organizations with a lot of "rules," I assume you are thinking of something like Islamic/Judaic dietary rules here, or perhaps Hindu, or perhaps Catholic clergy vows, something of that nature. Rules are generally put in place to try and help some situation, whether practical (kosher laws - pork carried tricchonosis, shellfish scombroid, don't eat these animals because it might kill you and they didn't know how to keep it from happening), spiritual (don't eat meat because it holds you back to kill another being to survive), or whatever. It's when following the rules becomes the main purpose of the belief system that there is an issue.

This allows them to theoretically justify acts that any rational person would consider truly ridiculous simply through the exploitation of loopholes. They constantly hold back utilitarian scientific advancement with their warped "morality".

I think this arises from a confusion between personal morals and ethics. Ethical values are there for times when you say "we can, but should we?" Unfortunately, there are parts of the scientific community, including researchers and healthcare professionals, who are not ethical in their practices. In many cases morals and ethics cover the same ground, and so in some cases an ethical argument is being made couched as a moral argument. It's very hard to get a handle on this, but not all "utilitarian scientific advancement" is ethical.

Take an ethics class, I think you'd get a lot out of it, as you seem like a reasonably intelligent person. Also perhaps a comparative or world religions class, just to round you out a bit regarding polytheistic beliefs.

Answer 3

Technically, as this question is put to those who do not believe in god or gods, I do not qualify to answer, but I feel compelled to anyway:

I think perhaps that by antitheist you mean anti-religion. In and of itself, belief in a deity does no harm to anyone. Religions, however, can be, as you so adeptly described, very harmful indeed. Belief in a deity does not necessarily preclude acceptance of scientific fact, whereas the dogma of organized religion often does.

I think belief alone is not harmful at all, but certitude in the unknowable is extremely dangerous. People need to recognize that belief is just that: BELIEF. For instance, I may believe I will win the lottery. I don't KNOW it, and it very well might not happen. I can run around saying I KNOW I will be winning the lottery, but that does not make it true. The fact is, winning the lottery is unknowable, as is the existence of a deity. If all religions were able to come to terms with the fact that they COULD be wrong, I truly believe that we would see far less religion-inspired violence.

Side note to the person who suggested that you were "nudging the bar" by asking only atheists to answer: It is a question about atheist beliefs. If you are not an atheist, you are not able to answer this. It is asking atheists to define their own beliefs. I can not define my own Christian beliefs because I don't have any. Likewise, you cannot define your own atheist beliefs if you are not an atheist. Oy.

Answer 4

Just because I'm not an atheist doesn't make it mean I'm a Christian, Muslim, or Jew. The personal form of religion that most individuals today is cheap, hypocritical and corrupt by power and their victims are the the one who follow them.

Remember, Jesus never offended a "nonbeliever" because they are honest and loyal open minded people inspite of the fact that they don't know God as a being. I put nonbeliever in quotations because I'm trying to say they are pontential believers, but they just havn't seen the light yet and don't know better.

I personally believe the true infidel in the one who actually met God, saw the light, and rejected it. There is still hope of repentance from abusing one's life and can be saved, but if one never has remorse and calls misery good and bliss evil, they are hypocrites for knowing reality and not accepting it, so they go to hell (after resurrecting) to be annihilated.

Yes, ceasing to exist is a reality, it's called the second death. The only new thing for an atheist to accept is the idea of that the force of the cosmos is a living being and loved us enough to defeat sin and death for us to do the same. The lie of the enemy force wants has us twist the truth. He (satan) knows he's going to be annihilated, but is to proud to accept that and just keeps on deceiving people to defame God with lies about immortality and the government of God. In the government of God (or the cosmos if you prefer), if you disobey life giving laws, you logically lose your life, ceasing to exist. God loved us enough to make a loophole.

Answer 5

I am Neither of those. I am a Fundie or Fundamental Christian. My wife and I are Non-Denominational Christians who have been married for 31 years. We have three beautiful children and we thank GOD each and every day for HIS wonderful gifts. HE sent Christ so that we all would have an opportunity to be in Heaven with HIM. You have an opportunity to become a Christian and be there too.

Study these scriptures and see what you think. To become a Christian:
1. We must HEAR GOD’s WORD. - Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
2. We are told to BELIEVE. - To the Prison guard in Acts 16:31 Paul and Silas said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."
3. We must REPENT (turn from) of our sins. - Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent.
4. We are told to CONFESS CHRIST before men. - Matthew 10:32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
5. We are to enter the waters and BE BAPTIZED. - Mark 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
6. We are told to CONTINUE TO BE FAITHFUL until death. - Revelation 2:10b Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Send me a note if you have questions. I am anxious to hear from you. Have a Great day.
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Answer 6

Honestly, a bit of both. I know some perfectly wonderful, reasonable theists, and some scary, zealous weirdos. Zealotry scares me.

I would not deny someone their beliefs, and for some, I honestly think that it keeps them from hanging out in clock towers. Religion has it's place, just not with me.

Answer 7

Anti God

Anti theist would be something like hating the believers

I hate the idea of God

Answer 8

I choose both of the above.

My example. When Moe smacks Curly in various ways is it religiously motivated. Can you tie religion into this example in a clever way?

Answer 9

"[ Opening note: Religious nutters need not apply. Christians and muslims posting here should prepare to be ridiculed. ]"

You are really nudging the bar letting only atheists or peope who think the same as you do to reply to this, aren't you?

However, I will ignore you rudeness - I don't see myself as being fully religious and not atheist either, I believe there is something, and whoever can't find themselves to taking that blind faith now and then i feel sorry for.

Answer 10

I am one good atheist. Religion is a big & heavy anchor slowing down the pace of this ship 'Life'. My advise whatever you do JUST STAY OUT OF RELIGION