For those who say humans wouldn't be able to live in a moral society without religion and....?

Question

For those who argue that there aren't any morals without religion and humans need religion to be moral people and wouldn't be able to live in a moral society without religion.

Read this article that just came out - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/science/20moral.html?ei=5090&en=84f902cc81da9173&ex=1332043200&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

Can you argue that?

The brain has a genetically shaped mechanism for acquiring moral rules, similar to the neural machinery for learning language, according to Harvard evolutionary biologis Marc Hauser.
Some animals are surprisingly sensitive to the plight of others. Chimpanzees, who cannot swim, have drowned in zoo moats trying to save others. Given the chance to get food by pulling a chain that would also deliver an electric shock to a companion, rhesus monkeys will starve themselves for several days.
Biologists argue that these and other social behaviors are the precursors of human morality.

Religion can be seen as another special ingredient of human societies, though one that emerged thousands of years after morality, in Dr. de Waal’s view. There are clear precursors of morality in nonhuman primates, but no precursors of religion. So it seems reasonable to assume that as humans evolved away from chimps, morality emerged first, followed by religion. “I look at religions as recent additions,” he said. “Their function may have to do with social life, and enforcement of rules and giving a narrative to them, which is what religions really do.”

So can you still object that humans need the bible and religion in order to be a decent moral person?


P.S.

And please don't respond without reading the entire article.

The animal roots of human morality
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/mg19225731.800-the-animal-roots-of-human-morality.html


New Scientist;
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/opinion/mg19325937.100-interview-how-we-tell-right-from-wrong.html

Sense of justice discovered in the brain
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/dn10239-sense-of-justice-discovered-in-the-brain.html

Exploring the moral maze
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/mg18825271.700-exploring-the-moral-maze.html

Harvard Press
The Origins of Right and Wrong in Humans and Other Animals
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/DEWGOO.html

John Hawks: paleoanthropology, genetics, and evolution
http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/minds/morality/wade_2007_de_waal_primate_morality.html

Princeton Uni Press
Primates and Philosophers:
How Morality Evolved
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8240.html

In spite of ourselves
http://www.physorg.com/news9988.html

Honor Among Beasts
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1079521,00.html


I'm sorry "The Church Lady" (second response down), can you repeat that? Do you have anything to say now?

If so, please respond to the content now that I have provided you with some from alternate sources.

Answer 1

I completely agree with you and the article ( I bookmarked it for my husband to read tomorrow) I particularly liked this comment, "Sympathy is the raw material out of which a more complicated set of ethics may get fashioned."

I just posted earlier this evening on this very subject. My question is this: If a person is ethical/moral out of obedience to a god, is that truly moral? Or is is just fear of retribution/punishment? So, if a non believer is moral WITHOUT the expectation of reward from a god but rather out his or her own set of values, is that person not TRULY the moral/ethical person?

Answer 2

But that doesn't take into account the fact that chimps can also be very violent and agressive towards rival chimps and strangers, sometimes even killing them. Being kind to those who are kind to you, such as a chimp who helped groom you, or who are your kin isn't true altruism because from an evolutionary standpoint it doesn't really matter if an individual animal lives as long as similar genes are passed on. Behaviors like being kind to your enemies or turning the other cheek would never evolve naturally, because a species that did that in the wild would go extinct. Morality also implies a concious motive, not just reactionary behavior towards momentary things like distress calls.

Answer 3

I have been researching this for a while now and I agree that humans had the ability of morality before they found religion. In fact many of the religions seem to have many immoral participants. There are many authors that write on this subject, one of the most recent that I know of is the book that I listed below in the sources. This book is difficult to read at times however because sometimes it gets a little bit on the radical side. But there are interesting arguments in his book that's for sure.

Answer 4

You don't have to read a lot of articles to know that Christianity or Islam do not support moral, ethical behavior.
By their works you will know them.

Answer 5

Oh, I didn't know that this so-called "New York Times" is a book of the Bible now. Oh, wait, it isn't!

Answer 6

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ai1M6ERD4DVdtGLoV5UlQBHsy6IX?qid=20070322221807AAPAZTf

you cant tell me what to read and what not ro read