Free will, choice, and information?

Question

So to make a good choice one must have sufficient information.

To have free will one must have a choice.

Therefore to have free will one must have sufficient information.

The question now is what is sufficient information? And does the bible provide it?

Thoughts? feelings?

If you think one or more of my premises are wrong please agrue why it's wrong and offer a suggestion as to how I can fix it.

True I should have written:
So to make a choice one must have sufficient information.

But it doesn't matter whether the choice is "good" or "bad".

In the party question...the locking of the doors would have to be part of the sufficient information to begin with. Others I couldn't make an informed choice to go to the party.

If you choose to you hand of the stove you know that you might be burned.

You said to see how hot it was...therefore you have some information

And part of my question was what is sufficient information.

Answer 1

Really intelligent question. After thinking about it, you're right. If we are not properly informed, then we cannot have free will. If Christianity was correct, and we had all been properly informed, we'd all choose it.

*I think people are misunderstanding what you mean by "good choice."

Answer 2

Your premises are inconsistent and false.

You said, "To have free will one must have a choice."

you must say "...one must have a good choice" in order to stay consistent with the first premise; regardless, the second premise false.

To have free will, one must have the ability to choose. If he doesn't have that, then he can't have a choice. If he doesn't have a choice, he doesn't have free will.

One can have free will and make good or bad choices with or without sufficient information. That's what puts the "free" in "free will."

Free will is not the same as an educated opinion, which is something that actually does require sufficient information. People make uneducated choices all the time on their own volition.

---in response to "details"---

If you're saying that it doesn't matter whether the choice is "good" or "bad," then you should replace the phrase "good choice" from the first premise to "choice" in order to not sound like a fool.

If you did that, then your whole argument is doomed. "To make a choice, one must have sufficient information."

Guess what? I chose to put my hand on the stove when I was a kid to see how hot it was. Therefore, I made a choice without sufficient information. Therefore, one mustn't have sufficient information to make a choice.

Answer 3

"I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reasons, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

I think sufficient information means enough to convince you that you've made a correct choice, and it depends on the situation at hand. You don't need to know the atomic make-up of each flavor of ice cream to make a choice, but then again you'll want to go off of more than just color when you're deciding medications.

The bible is a good source of information on certain ethical or theological matters, but absolutely all information could not possibly be contained in a single book. This is why we have free will, to help us investigate things to get information, and thus make a good choice.

Answer 4

"To have free will one must have a choice." Since choice implies free will, you might as well say "to have free will, one must have free will." Also, having sufficient information doesn't mean one will make the "good" choice. What is a "good" choice? By even acknowledging a "good" choice, you seem to imply that everyone would make that choice given the same situation, which ultimately leans toward human nature rather than free will. And although an individual may do what they want, they cannot choose to want to do that.

Answer 5

We do not know how and from where our thoughts arise. Therefor, we do not know for sure whether we have any will at all, much less choice. The idea of free will, whether true or not, is not supported by anything but our sense of freedom to choose, which may be mistaken.

Assuming that we have some ability to direct our desires and actions, the Bible only provides enough information to show that the Bible is false.

Answer 6

Hmm, definitely something wrong in the first three sentences. I think it's "to have free will one must have a choice." Free will and choice are the same thing. But free will and "good choice" are NOT the same thing. So having sufficient information makes no difference in free will, see what I mean? I may not have the info, but I still have free will.

Also, how do you define "good" choice?

Answer 7

Under the best circumstances you will have sufficient information for your choices.
But how often does that happen?
The Bible provides it as a moral standard to base your decisions on, not just facts and figures. By the time you gather all the facts about a complex situation the situation has changed and there will be more facts to gather. A never ending cycle.

Answer 8

Not so. Imagine your at a party. You have to leave at ten. Unbeknownst to you, the door has been locked and you can't get out. Ten o'clock arrives and you are having such a good time that you decide to stay and never discover that the door is locked. Because you lacked the information that you cannot leave, you had the ability to make a choice. Choice is simply a process based on available information.

Answer 9

We have all the information we need concerning God and His existence and creation. God provided enough information, so to say that you don't have enough is an excuse and won't hold up in God's court.

here's a true story out of the Bible, don't miss vs 29,30

"19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[a] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' ..."

31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Answer 10

There is no such thing as free will.

You cannot give consent to a thing if you cannot reject a thing.

IE, if someone has a gun to your head and says gimme your money or die.

Is that a choice?