Are incredible complexity, or tremendous odds, supposed to be reasonable arguments for god?

Question

I constantly read things like, "the human body is far too complex to have happened randomly."

Well, how many times throughout history have naysayers claimed supernatural explanation because any other answer *seemed* humanly impossible?

When you can't understand something, of course "god" looks attractive. But when a logical, natural explanation is presented, only a fool denies the reality set in front of them.

This is when theists' sputter, "well, religion doesn't claim to explain scientific phenomenon!" Why then is it constantly trying to dissect science, pointing towards an ever shrinking collective of things science can't yet explain as proof of its so called "infallibility?"

When religion is proven wrong, it always attempts to rationalize itself, because lets face it, any admission of fallacy completely undermines a doctrine that claims infallibility.

Science simply says, "I was wrong", and moves forward.

Isn't this the same thing humans do in order to grow?

Arnon...

Examples abound. Just Google the words complexity argument god.

The point of the question is to show that a lack of knowledge is not a good reason to fill the "gap" with "god" which is what many people on Y!A use as an argument for the existence of their creator.

Gemma,
Did you just watch "What the Bleep Do We Know"? For all practical purposes, matter is matter, and the only place that thoughts can affect reality, or the past can be altered, is in Hollywood.

Geez........

Proud Texan,

Complex organs can most certainly be formed if the slight modifications are *cherry picked*. Evolutions is alive and well, even if it has EVOLVED from Darwin's original theory. This is precisely what science does. When will religion ever admit it is wrong, about anything? What could be a less attractive quality?

Answer 1

Growth of civilization can only occur through the ability to let go of old ways of thinking.

One day the religious will have to let go of the idea of God as we know it. There is mounting proof of the the falsification of the religious text in to a God paradigm. Knowledge will not be had by Christian if they are not willing to look beyond their bible.

Man has to keep an open to mind to absoluter truth for humanity to have continual growth even if that absolute truth is "I don't know".

Answer 2

>> "Science simply says, "I was wrong", and moves forward." That certainly hasn't happened recently with the whole theory of macroevolution...and global warming proponents certainly don't allow any dissent or questioning, now, do they?

Fine. Irreducible complexity doesn't prove God's existence. What you must realize is that this -disproves- evolution. Charles Darwin, the glorified founder of evolution, said that "[i]f it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous successive slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."

There ya have it, folks. His theory of evolution has "absolutely [broken] down." The reason that theists commonly use this argument is because it -disproves- evolution.

The concept of irreducible complexity, combined with the cosmological, teleological, and moral arguments, reasonably asserts that God exists.

Contrary to Nietzsche, God is -not- dead.

Edit: the modifications must have been "cherry picked," indeed. who picked the metaphorical cherries, then? it all points back to a Person.

Answer 3

I cannot completely disagree with every point you make, except that Science does not always say "oops we were wrong", and move on; in fact, I've never heard that happen one time in fifty years, but hey, the day is young, right? The other thing is I wonder when you can say that Religion has been proven wrong? It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings, my friend.
The final note I have to send to you is this:
After 35 years of study in the manuscripts, I tell you that there is absolutely no controversy between the truth of Gods Word, and true Science. None whatsoever;
what you have is two groups who lack knowledge, but who seem to have the loudest mouths.
I esspecially address those called "creationists" who say that the Bible states the earth to be 6000 years old. The Bible says no such thing; in fact, it does state that the earth is eons old, and that there was an entire earth age before this one. My 7yr old child knows of fossils that date older than 6000 years, geez......
I'm sure they are well-meaning, but that does not excuse their unbelievable Bible
illiteracy.

Answer 4

In my religion - Paganism - we know that our "spells," which are focused intentions, do have the power to change reality. These practices have been continually in use by enlightened people since prehistory.

This is laughed at and called insane by many people. Yet science has now proven that focused, emotional intentions can change physical matter and, incredibly, even change the PAST.

My point is that the things that sound ridiculous to Newtonian scientists (i.e., scientists rooted firmly in classical physics), but perfectly reasonable to spiritual people, are turning out to be factually true.

And... Many things that taught in the past is being proven false.

(Examples - remember learning in school about the difference between energy and matter? Turns out that it's ALL energy, and the only difference between you and the chair you're sitting on is the rate at which your respective particles are vibrating. And remember learning that nothing can move faster than the speed of light? That's wrong too.)

Answer 5

I must point out that science has yet to prove or disprove any religion. Just as there are fundies out there who would prefer items that show evolution to be a strong theory be hidden, there are those who have no problem studying science and finding it filling in gaps of their faith without giving it up. This I know because one of them was my biology professor in college. I didn't know he was Christian until he gave a lecture in my humanities class on science and religion. This was of course after I had taken two biology classes and labs with him as the instructor.

Please remember to separate out the screaming fundies who think science must disprove faith from those of us who find it fascinating but not infringing on our faith. Also please do not insist because science has yet to prove the absolute existence or nonexistence of something that it there for must not exist.

Answer 6

this is quite a narrow minded view of both scientists and Christians.
Actually, scientists are constantly baffled by the complexities of the human body. Just because we can do a heart transplant or invent a vaccine to combat the flu doesn't mean we've even scratched the SURFACE of what exactly makes up the human body and how it works.
Conversly, a scientist who says "I was wrong" is not only moving forward.... he/she is moving forward to the ultimate knowledge that indeed, God did it.

Answer 7

You are so stupid, I don't know if I should even waste my time.
Do you understand the difference between physical evidence and opinion. If you do, then you need to apply it to everything.

Answer 8

nope ... the very simplest explanations that nobody listens to are the reasonable arguments ...

Answer 9

If God is so clever, why isn't the Earth in the center of the universe?

Answer 10

Yes. We don't know everything. Religion is the filler for the fools who want to claim all the answers.